Shohei Ohtani tears UCL, won't pitch again this season

[Stradling]

He was never getting $700 million and probably not $600 million. I realize he was doing something no one has ever done but contracts are t just going to jump from $40 million (Judge) long term to $60 million long term. 

[Chico]

That's what happens when you try to have three guys put the entire team on their back Three guys who are 28, 32 and 33. First the 33 year old goes down for the season, then the 32  year old, (like last year) leaving the 28 year old pitching and hitting, trying to keep the team afloat. They over-used Ohtani  as an anchor. But he's only human. The season is lost and they should completely shut Ohtani down to avoid further injury. But they won't.

The Angels are a cursed organization. Cursed with stupidity and bad luck and now the worst owner in MLB. They may have ruined Ohtani by trotting him out as a pitcher bc of their extreme need for uality pitching, even as the season lies in tatters. (again) The warning signs were there....he has been sitting out with exhaustion and finger blisters lately. The team didn't need him as a pitcher. He's a good, not great pitcher, but the Angels' pitching staff is dog**** and they need to keep up the charade of being in playoff contention, even though they're 61-67. How sad. He should not pitch again.

[HanfordGuy]

6 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Trout back on the IL, too.

 

 

 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Chico said:

That's what happens when you try to have three guys put the entire team on their back Three guys who are 28, 32 and 33. First the 33 year old goes down for the season, then the 32  year old, (like last year) leaving the 28 year old pitching and hitting, trying to keep the team afloat. They over-used Ohtani  as an anchor. But he's only human. The season is lost and they should completely shut Ohtani down to avoid further injury. But they won't.

The Angels are a cursed organization. Cursed with stupidity and bad luck and now the worst owner in MLB. They may have ruined Ohtani by trotting him out as a pitcher bc of their extreme need for uality pitching, even as the season lies in tatters. (again) The warning signs were there....he has been sitting out with exhaustion and finger blisters lately. The team didn't need him as a pitcher. He's a good, not great pitcher, but the Angels' pitching staff is dog**** and they need to keep up the charade of being in playoff contention, even though they're 61-67. How sad. He should not pitch again.

No. He’s a two way player, that’s his thing.  The Angels didn’t force this on him. Swinging a bat doesn’t blow out your UCL, pitching does. He made 25 starts on average over 3 years and averaged less than 145 innings. He never started on short rest and only started once on 4 days rest and that was after a rain delay game where he pitched 30 pitches. Only once this year did he throw over 100 pitches in back to back games. He threw 111 pitches twice in a game this year, which were his most. He was never over worked as a pitcher. Ohtani isn’t a victim and the Angels aren’t the villain. 

[T.G.]

I'm guessing he signs a 2 year deal to reestablish his value. He should do that with the Angels because this organization knows him best and can help him navigate the process he has to go through. His familiarity with this team might be even more important now.

[T.G.]

I keep waiting for @Lou to pop in here and say... "What did you guys do?"

[angelsnationtalk]

If anything, he owes the Angels another year.

[DMVol]

11 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I'm guessing he signs a 2 year deal to reestablish his value. He should do that with the Angels because this organization knows him best and can help him navigate the process he has to go through. His familiarity with this team might be even more important now.

That was my first thought too, short term deal with opt outs.....but I don't think we know yet....he might get the same terms from the Dodgers, Giants or M's and decide that he wants to win now, as a hitter....we'll see....

[Jason]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

That was my first thought too, short term deal with opt outs.....but I don't think we know yet....he might get the same terms from the Dodgers, Giants or M's and decide that he wants to win now, as a hitter....we'll see....

I thought about this a little bit and I do not think keeping Ohtani as a DH willwork that well for the Halos moving forward. Trout at this point in his career would probably be better suited be in the every day DH. That really doesn’t leave much room for Ohtani 

[TroutField]

7 hours ago, full circle said:

Uhhh can you read?  You accused someone of Monday morning quarterbacking, when injury risk was one of the major factors as to why some of us felt he shouldn’t be signed and traded instead.  Pay attention.  Monday Morning quarterbacking is when you don’t take a stance until AFTER it happens, then you wanna criticize.  Learn to read kid. 

Yeah I’m saying here you are in the thread saying see I told you so… so yeah I don’t think you can actually read lol 

 

Pull up the thread you said we should trade him before he gets hurt and I’ll believe you. Until then I think you’re full of shit and taking your usual “im a smarter fan than everyone else” that’s called Monday morning quarterbacking. 

[Angelsjunky]

Haven't read the thread, but I suppose the sliver of silver lining is that this probably increases the chances that Ohtani stays, maybe on a one-year deal. If I were him, that's what I'd do. The Angels might even be able to re-up his current contract, but add a bit more. Say, 1/$35M or 1/$40M. That is, of course, assuming that he can at least hit next year. If he has TJS, I'm guessing he'll miss all of next year pitching, and maybe part as a hitter.

[John Taylor]

32 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I'm guessing he signs a 2 year deal to reestablish his value. He should do that with the Angels because this organization knows him best and can help him navigate the process he has to go through. His familiarity with this team might be even more important now.

This is what I was thinking as well. I think the injury increases the chance the Angels re-sign him. Also people complaining that they dont want to pay 30+ mil for a DH tend to forget the fact that he actively brings in money to the org because he's fucking Shohei Ohtani.

[jsnpritchett]

37 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

If anything, he owes the Angels another year.

He doesn't "owe" the Angels anything. 

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Haven't read the thread, but I suppose the sliver of silver lining is that this probably increases the chances that Ohtani stays, maybe on a one-year deal. If I were him, that's what I'd do. The Angels might even be able to re-up his current contract, but add a bit more. Say, 1/$35M or 1/$40M. That is, of course, assuming that he can at least hit next year. If he has TJS, I'm guessing he'll miss all of next year pitching, and maybe part as a hitter.

Those numbers you just threw out seem a bit high. Obviously we don’t know the full extent of the injury yet and what the rehab time table looks like but there are serious questions marks with him now. 

[T.G.]

10 minutes ago, John Taylor said:

Also people complaining that they dont want to pay 30+ mil for a DH...

HIs offensive numbers alone are worth a bundle...  He's having an extraordinary offensive year.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

He doesn't "owe" the Angels anything. 

Nor do the Angels owe him anything. 

[DMVol]

13 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Haven't read the thread, but I suppose the sliver of silver lining is that this probably increases the chances that Ohtani stays, maybe on a one-year deal. If I were him, that's what I'd do. The Angels might even be able to re-up his current contract, but add a bit more. Say, 1/$35M or 1/$40M. That is, of course, assuming that he can at least hit next year. If he has TJS, I'm guessing he'll miss all of next year pitching, and maybe part as a hitter.

He had Tommy John surgery in October 2018 but came back in 2019 as a DH.....

[Tyler]

This was the risk of not signing the extension. Personally I think this will lock him up as an Angel long term and Arte won’t lowball him too much showing loyalty. 

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

The Trout thing is a little shocking... probably deserves its own thread. He just came back so his clock is reset. He's now looking at going beyond the long end of those "4"-8 weeks.

Trout probably came back because the team was still in lets show the world we won't go down without a fight mode.  Clearly that's no longer the case. 

8 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

re: Trout

Wondering if the wrist is damaged or weakened long term. They removed that bone I believe.

Said this when he was first injured .... guys who break their hamates typically take a bit to get their power back.  He should be back to normal by next season, but it wouldnt shock me to see him start off slow in the power department.

[jsnpritchett]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Nor do the Angels owe him anything. 

I agree. I was just responding to what was said. 

[Jay]

For once the Angels caught a break. I would like to see the Angels re-sign Ohtani for a couple years. I don't think that a long-term contract is in the cards for Ohtani.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

I keep waiting for @Lou to pop in here and say... "What did you guys do?"

I’m a maybe.

[Angel Oracle]

55 minutes ago, John Taylor said:

This is what I was thinking as well. I think the injury increases the chance the Angels re-sign him. Also people complaining that they dont want to pay 30+ mil for a DH tend to forget the fact that he actively brings in money to the org because he's fucking Shohei Ohtani.

I was hoping for at most a 2-3 year vast overpay deal anyway earlier in the season, thinking being that he won’t be able to do both hitting and pitching for many more seasons.

Now a 2 year deal ($80 million total?) makes good sense.

Avoid the long contract going forward, and enjoy two more great hitting seasons.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, ScottSted said:

It’s a fitting final chapter on this era of Angels baseball.

Shohei picked the Angels, we absolutely wore him out with zero support for six years and now he leaves with a blown out elbow. We screwed ourselves and we screwed the best player of all time. 

We mortgaged the future for a few washed up rentals who look like absolute dogshit and will likely walk in 6 weeks. And Mike Trout is signed forever but can’t stay on the field and has already regressed to just being Very Good when he is on the field. 

It’s about as bleak as it can get. From the top down, this organization needs to be cleaned out. Maybe then, we will have a chance in 2027.

 

Yeah, they showed him no support.  They just altered the rotation to best suit him.  Closed DH off from other players.  Waited out his TJS and then let him dictate his usage.

No support at all.

Shit hasn't worked out, but to argue he wasn't supported is laughable.  Most of MLB and pretty much every pundit alive, including all the ones currently mocking the Angels for wasting his amazing "two way talent", were pretty adamant that the Angels needed to make him pick, hitter or pitcher.

Wonder how many will now turn around and claim -- see we were right!

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

I was hoping for at most a 2-3 year vast overpay deal anyway earlier in the season, thinking being that he won’t be able to do both hitting and pitching for many more seasons.

Now a 2 year deal ($80 million total?) makes good sense.

Avoid the long contract going forward, and enjoy two more great hitting seasons.

The issue with doing this, though, is that in all likelihood, he's not going to pitch at all next season and who knows about '25. So you're paying him $40M/year to be a DH, but you're now without your "ace". Do you just go with a 5-man rotation of Detmers, Sandoval, Anderson, Canning, and Silseth? If not, then you'd need to trade for or sign a starter who would be an upgrade.