Something to consider with today's trade

[ten ocho recon scout]

I know a lot on here don't like the trade. And as someone who's watched this team struggle to produce actual ballplayers at the MLB level, I get it. I'm half foot in the same boat.

But @Jeff Fletcher mentioned on here a few days ago something that stood out. Teams today are less likely to move good prospects for rentals than they were 10 years ago.

Which obviously makes us sound stupid.

That said...

Loo at it in the vice versa. How much do we really think Ohtani was (is) going to bring back? I know causal fan assumes he would be a bonanza in trade, but again, he's a guaranteed FA at the end of the year (no extension). I'm sure we could have gotten a top tier prospect for him, and likely a few additional nice ones.

But the reality is, unicorn or not, for a 2 month rental, the odds are next to zero that we would have gotten anything close to a replacement. 

So the options were to trade Ohtani and punt the year, hoping that the return is someone like what we got today... Quero but better (maybe).

Stand pat, keep everyone, and gamble with what we have that 3 weeks from now there's still a chance.

Like Minasian said, you can go to sleep with this move and relax, because you did it for the right reasons.

It might absolutely haunt us a few years from now.

But not actually trying to win with Ohtani guaranteed to be wearing this uniform would also have absolutely haunted us.

[mmc]

That trade was yesterday

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I made the same point about Ohtani to a friend who was convinced that the Angels should trade him. Although I was initially leaning toward a trade, when I thought about it Ohtani was far less likely to bring anything close to equal value in return as a two month rental than he would have had he been traded last winter - especially if he was traded to a team that had little to no chance of signing him in free agency.

[CaliAngel]

1 minute ago, mmc said:

That trade was yesterday

Unprecedented contribution to the thread.

[ten ocho recon scout]

36 minutes ago, mmc said:

That trade was yesterday

Not in India it's not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or something.

[ten ocho recon scout]

35 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I made the same point about Ohtani to a friend who was convinced that the Angels should trade him. Although I was initially leaning toward a trade, when I thought about it Ohtani was far less likely to bring anything close to equal value in return as a two month rental than he would have had he been traded last winter - especially if he was traded to a team that had little to no chance of signing him in free agency.

I've been on board the Trade Ohtani train since last year. And still think we should have, last year.

 

But we didn't. And maybe that's the curse, honestly.

But we're here now. 

And not trying to win with him honestly would have been the worst move. Simply because we weren't ever going to get Mike Trout in return for him.

Fletcher stood out to me the other day when he said that they don't need to win this year or even make the playoffs this year to move the Ohtani needle. (Hot, not gross). As much as they need to to show(hei!) him.that there's a chance, that this team isn't going to roll over, etc.

May end up being a dumbest move. But IMO, it's the right gamble.

[Revad]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But IMO, it's the right gamble

I was excited yesterday but felt like we gave up too much.  Today I’m pretty jazzed.  Time will tell but I agree this was the right move and I love the aggressive timing with Giolito pitching tomorrow.  He’s used to four days rest I wonder if he or Ohtani starts Wednesday afternoon.  I’ll be there so I hope Ohtani starts, but they didn’t want him pitching twice in a row in the heat so he was going to start tomorrow so I’m guessing Giolito.

[DCAngelsFan]

47 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

..

It might absolutely haunt us a few years from now.

But not actually trying to win with Ohtani guaranteed to be wearing this uniform would also have absolutely haunted us.

This.

Like you said, the "right" thing to do (other than have a pipeline of players in the minors that we drafted and developed from the US and internationally, and not to make non-productive signings) might've been to trade Ohtani last season for a "big haul"

And maybe that would've worked out for us, eventually.  

Trading him this year to someone who might be willing to overpay might have *still* been the right thing to do.  

But it would mean he does all the things he does on the daily, maybe reach 62 and get another MVP -  in another uniform. 

The angst over seeing Ohtani perform his feats in another uniform, and almost certainly not coming back, would've killed our fans' collective souls.  

If you wanted to send a message to him that you're in it to win it?  You make that trade.  If you want him to re-sign here - which may *also* be a mistake, you make that trade.

It's very high-risk - if we don't make the playoffs and he signs elsewhere, it'll be kind of a disaster.  (this team really, really, really needs to figure out how to find and develop talent better)

But making that trade might've been the only way to keep him an Angel for life - and might be the last chance for the Angels to make a run at the playoffs for a long while.

It'll probably not work out - but then again, maybe it will.

What was that thing from 2002?  Oh yeah, OGAAT.

 

[REDneck]

Taking both games in a DH. A Ohtani SO and 2 HR's is like a summer breeze regarding this trade. Very soothing!

[PattyD22]

30 minutes ago, Revad said:

I was excited yesterday but felt like we gave up too much.  Today I’m pretty jazzed.  Time will tell but I agree this was the right move and I love the aggressive timing with Giolito pitching tomorrow.  He’s used to four days rest I wonder if he or Ohtani starts Wednesday afternoon.  I’ll be there so I hope Ohtani starts, but they didn’t want him pitching twice in a row in the heat so he was going to start tomorrow so I’m guessing Giolito.

Me too @Revad.  Taking 2 games in the doubleheader makes me feel pretty good.  I hope we can continue this play into Toronto and keep up the positive vibes.  

[Angels 1961]

After all-star break Angels got hot. Arte, Minasian sat down and discussed options. They are not sitting on the fence decision has been made. I was saying they should trade Ohtani because it did not look good to make playoffs or resigning him. I'm all in on this move and only time will tell if it works out. It is nice looking forward to playing meaningful games. I'm glad it was made now and not waiting until deadline. Lose 3 straight in Toronto I will still think it was the right call. Seven losing seasons I hope this turns things in right direction. Angels could have 3 big additions soon in Drury, Trout and O'Hoppe. Nice to have Ohtani on this team.

[Duren, Duren]

Another thing it does is immediately squash all those Ohtani trade rumors. Very disappointing for all the media outlets wanting viewership and clicks as the deadline approaches. 

You never know what you're getting with prospects. No matter how they are rated. Think Adell. Even if he eventually becomes a solid major leaguer he was hyped for how many years and still hadn't made the team. The Angels when he was the top prospect were a very different team than they are now. But in the other hand you have a Neto. Far less hype or expectations and he's a regular months after being drafted. 

You just don't know. And sometimes it takes years to assess a trade. 

From Chicago's perspective it's a good deal. Obviously it must have been the best offer they got. It's a lost season for them and the free agents weren't coming back. 

Though we don't know if there were separate offers for each pitcher. Possibly from other teams too,  Maybe they or the Angels just wanted to make a one for one trade, but it morphed into the two for two. 

I also think it's an act of good faith towards Ohtani and the fan base. Their playoff chances aren't great, but they are showing that they aren't resigned to failure. If they finish the season strong it can be an attitude that carries over into next year. 

And even if Ohtani goes elsewhere next year this is still a potentially historic season. Finishing it elsewhere would be a blemish on Angel history.  And an embarrassment. 

We could still have one of the most exciting finishes to a season in a decade. If Trout, Rendon and anyone else now out return healthy the team could be more fun to watch. They currently lead the league in home runs despite all the injuries. The pitching is coming around. Why not let them go all in? 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Extend Nevin.   10 years. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

@ten ocho recon scout

Bingo

I wrote a story about this last week. The reality is the Angels would have gotten something like two prospects in the 40-80 range and 3 lottery tickets. Nobody who is a major leaguer right now. That seems like nothing to casual fans but that would actually be a huge haul compared to other rentals. 
 

It certainly would have helped make the farm system look a little more shiny and get higher ratings, but it is a gamble to say it would have quickly led to more big league wins. 
 

Sooooooo many people who are saying the Angels missed some golden opportunity are vastly over rating what they could have gotten back. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

@ten ocho recon scout

Bingo

I wrote a story about this last week. The reality is the Angels would have gotten something like two prospects in the 40-80 range and 3 lottery tickets. Nobody who is a major leaguer right now. That seems like nothing to casual fans but that would actually be a huge haul compared to other rentals. 
 

It certainly would have helped make the farm system look a little more shiny and get higher ratings, but it is a gamble to say it would have quickly led to more big league wins. 
 

Sooooooo many people who are saying the Angels missed some golden opportunity are vastly over rating what they could have gotten back. 

Because the Angels gave up “quite a bit” for Giolito, those fans will still be convinced that the Angels could have gotten a kings ransom for Ohtani.

[AngelStew43]

Arte would've also hurt himself at the gate.  Speaking from a personal standpoint, I go to the games to see what Ohtani is going to do next.  

He is fun to watch. 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

J

12 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

@ten ocho recon scout

Bingo

I wrote a story about this last week. The reality is the Angels would have gotten something like two prospects in the 40-80 range and 3 lottery tickets. Nobody who is a major leaguer right now. That seems like nothing to casual fans but that would actually be a huge haul compared to other rentals. 
 

It certainly would have helped make the farm system look a little more shiny and get higher ratings, but it is a gamble to say it would have quickly led to more big league wins. 
 

Sooooooo many people who are saying the Angels missed some golden opportunity are vastly over rating what they could have gotten back. 

And there it is.

I think it's also important for everyone here (and baseball fans in general) to keep in mind a simple reality check.

 

The only teams that would be in Ohtani this year are those who are in the hunt to win it all. Which is like 5 or 6 teams (?)

 

Who are their prospects?

I say that because the literal best prospects are likely either on a team who isn't going to win this year, or spread out among a couple.

Meaning we weren't going to flip Ohtani for some hotshot bona-fide SP prospect along with some "holy shit!!!" RF who is the next 40 HR guy

So our return market was lotto picks at best. Lotto picks who might break out and make us look smart as hell... but more than likely solid guys at best.

Meaning "not gonna replace him". And that would be down the road at best

We missed the window to cash in. And maybe thar would have been the right move. (Likely)

 

But we're here now. 

 

If there was ever a time to throw a haymaker, this is it

We might bet slipped and catch a hook to the liver, but at the end of the day we were losing the fight anyway...

 

Go fo broke

[Jeff Fletcher]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Because the Angels gave up “quite a bit” for Giolito, those fans will still be convinced that the Angels could have gotten a kings ransom for Ohtani.

Quero was no 84

The Angels would have gotten 2 Quero’s and 3 other middling prospects for Ohtani. 

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Revad said:

He’s used to four days rest I wonder if he or Ohtani starts Wednesday afternoon.  I’ll be there so I hope Ohtani starts, but they didn’t want him pitching twice in a row in the heat so he was going to start tomorrow so I’m guessing Giolito.

Sandoval is another option for that Wednesday start, too.

On the pre-game show today, they were saying how Giolito prefers four days rest and that Nevin said they’d try to accommodate that. (Paraphrasing)

I doubt Ohtani starts on Wednesday because of the heat in Atlanta. So then it’s between Sandoval and Giolito.

Since they need a starter on Tuesday because the rainout messed things up, maybe they use Sandoval on 4 days rest on Tuesday?

[Slegnaac]

Does Anderson become the 6th starter?

1. Ohtani

2. Giolito

3. Detmers

4. Canning

5. Sandoval

6. Anderson

With the off days, and trying to accommodate Giolito's 5 day schedule, will they skip spots in the rotation, or just move everyone down a day.

 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

@ten ocho recon scout

Bingo

I wrote a story about this last week. The reality is the Angels would have gotten something like two prospects in the 40-80 range and 3 lottery tickets. Nobody who is a major leaguer right now. That seems like nothing to casual fans but that would actually be a huge haul compared to other rentals. 
 

It certainly would have helped make the farm system look a little more shiny and get higher ratings, but it is a gamble to say it would have quickly led to more big league wins. 
 

Sooooooo many people who are saying the Angels missed some golden opportunity are vastly over rating what they could have gotten back. 

I'm impressed with what Minasian has done . Did not this linger thru weekend and wait until deadline to act. Perry said Ohtani is going to stay and then trade. What happens next Ohtani pitches a 1 hit shutout and hits 2 HR in game. Not saying that was the reason but news did not hurt his performance. What else will Perry do?

[ten ocho recon scout]

35 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

Does Anderson become the 6th starter?

1. Ohtani

2. Giolito

3. Detmers

4. Canning

5. Sandoval

6. Anderson

With the off days, and trying to accommodate Giolito's 5 day schedule, will they skip spots in the rotation, or just move everyone down a day.

 

Personally I'm hoping Arte and Nevin show up in the clubhouse tomorrow, with Nevin being up front with the group and telling them one of them is out.

 

And Arte quietly sits in the background not saying a word.

 

But quietly skins a squirrel alive, and eats it. Raw.

 

And then the group looks back at Nevin, scared shitless, and Nevin wipes his forehead of sweat, and says "like I said... one of you is out"

 

 

Think the last 40 minutes if Apocalypse Now

[ten ocho recon scout]

[ten ocho recon scout]

[ten ocho recon scout]

Anderson waking up randomly in his hotel room tonight, and Arte saying "hello"