Are you ready for Ohtani to be baseball's first Half a Billion Dollar Man?

[T.G.]

There are no guarantees to winning a championship... Knowing that, I'd like to see a guarantee of Ohtani in an Angels uniform at whatever cost.

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

salary is paid by the angels as a corporation, not directly out of the owners personal income.

And who decides how much money the corporation can spend?

 

 

 

 

 

(Is it you? If so, please tell Perry he can spend a little more.)

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

salary is paid by the angels as a corporation, not directly out of the owners personal income.

That being said, I heard that when Boras wants to get one of his high dollar FA signed, he looks at an owner's net worth.  That's why the Twins can be players for Correa.  Their owner is one of the wealthiest in baseball.  It doesn't matter to him that their payroll may be historically low... and that's why he likes to deal directly with owners.

[Angels 1961]

Would be limited teams that could spend 50 mill a year on Ohtani. Teams would be creative with 500 mill for 15 years.

[ten ocho recon scout]

39 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yep, which is why I think, in the end, the various specifics are a wash, and Ohtani basically is as valuable as his (total) WAR says he is: meaning, the best player in the game over the last two years, and second best in 2022. But he's not "actually" better than that. So you pay him like what he'll be in 2023: A 29-year old 8+ WAR mega-star with a special talent that nobody else has. Oh wait, that sounds like another guy on the Angel's roster..

Which bring me back to the original point. I think Ohtani gets what Judge gets, but a bit more time and money. 10/$400M would probably the lowest I would expect - and that only if he has a marked worse (but not bad) 2023 season. If he repeats or exceeds the last two years, it might be anything from 10/$450M to 12/$600M.

I think using common sense and economics, yes, teams should be wary to overpay for him. It could cripple a payroll.

That being said, there's a reason that we still talk about long dead ghosts like Ruth, mantle, etc. Baseball more than any other sport romanticizes history.

Ohtani is about the biggest example of anyone on decades who will be one of those old legends.

It's unique 

The other thing aid point out is that these crazy numbers seem mind-blowing, but it's a sign of the times.

Mike Piazza wanted to be baseballs first 100 million dollar man 20 years ago. That's peanuts today, for a HOF catcher.

Verlander and Scherzer are getting close to 100 mill as old dude pitchers.

My point being, if say Ohtani gets 450, he sets a new record. 

That record is likely broken during his contract.

If Boegarts just got close to 300, and Correa is getting over 3....

[Lou]

24 minutes ago, Tank said:

salary is paid by the angels as a corporation, not directly out of the owners personal income.

You're forgetting that Taylor knows absolutely nothing about running a business.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

You're forgetting that Taylor knows absolutely nothing about running a business.

It's true. I'm guessing you know absolutely nothing about running a baseball team.

Tank is the only person who can speak with authority here.

[Second Base]

The Angels can and will offer him more money than he could even ask for, and I still get the feeling he'll go somewhere else. Someone that spends big and wins. San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, both New York teams, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta.  

Just taking a random guess, but I'm thinking San Francisco to the tune of 11 years and 450 million. 

And he's absolutely going to worth it for a little bit. For the first four years he'll be with the huge investment. At ages 34-35 he'll have a harder time staying healthy in full time duty. At that point they'll do DH and closer, which will work out at 35-36. At age 37 he'll suffer an injury that'll end his pitching career and then he'll be an average DH at 37 and even 38. Come 39 and 40, he'll barely be able to move and be a walking novelty as a future Hall of Famer. 

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

It's true. I'm guessing you know absolutely nothing about running a baseball team.

And you know absolutely nothing about either one. 

[Taylor]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

And you know absolutely nothing about either one. 

So we're both ignorant on the topic at hand.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

So we're both ignorant on the topic at hand.

You made it about running a business/making a profit.

Again, you're ignorant on both topics. 

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

You made it about running a business/making a profit.

Again, you're ignorant on both topics. 

I didn't say anything about profit. Please don't put words in my mouth. 

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I didn't say anything about profit. Please don't put words in my mouth. 

You mentioned me in your response to a post on the very topic. 

 

[ScottT]

There's also that reported $10 million in ad revenue.... which... unlike merch and ticket sales... is not shared among teams.  

That is going to push him to record numbers despite concerns about how long he can continue doing both at such a high level 

[Taylor]

42 minutes ago, Lou said:

You mentioned me in your response to a post on the very topic. 

 

I still didn't say anything about profit. Sorry bud.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think using common sense and economics, yes, teams should be wary to overpay for him. It could cripple a payroll.

That being said, there's a reason that we still talk about long dead ghosts like Ruth, mantle, etc. Baseball more than any other sport romanticizes history.

Ohtani is about the biggest example of anyone on decades who will be one of those old legends.

It's unique 

The other thing aid point out is that these crazy numbers seem mind-blowing, but it's a sign of the times.

Mike Piazza wanted to be baseballs first 100 million dollar man 20 years ago. That's peanuts today, for a HOF catcher.

Verlander and Scherzer are getting close to 100 mill as old dude pitchers.

My point being, if say Ohtani gets 450, he sets a new record. 

That record is likely broken during his contract.

If Boegarts just got close to 300, and Correa is getting over 3....

I remember when Mark Langston got 5/$15M and everyone was shocked. That was 1990, I think, or thereabouts. that was about triple from a decade ago - I believe Dave Parker got the first million dollar salary in the late 70s, or maybe Dave Winfield, and way up from the top salary of the 50s-60s, which was a bit over $100K.

In the 90s, the top salary when from $3M at the start to I think about $12M at the end. But then it exploded - doubling in just a couple years, when Alex Rodriguez got $25M a year starting in 2001 (Manny got $20M that year, too). His salary went up to $33M in 2009....$9M more than the next guy (still Manny). He was the only player to get $30M until Kershaw in 2015. 

So despite the craziness of salaries, the real explosion - as far as percentages go - is from 1970ish to 2001ish. It was doubling every few years for a lot of that, but still hasn't doubled since 2001, with Scherzer's $43M last year the only $40M contract. Of course once you get to the tens of millions, doubling means something very different.

[ukyah]

7 hours ago, floplag said:

Ill be honest, im torn.  If signing him negates other possibilities then maybe its time to cut bait and get what we can.
As many here suggest we have limits, that if we spend to much in one place we have only penning for others... IF this is true im not sure i want this and think we would be better of dealing him and moving on.
The only way i makes sense is if new ownership is willing to go beyond those limits that Arte would not.
I hope they are, dont get me wrong, i hope they are and we do what it takes to move forward with him and fillin the current needs, but if blowing 40M on him means being unable to fill other holes, then at the end of the day its a business. 
It seems a "cant have it both ways" issue.  

i think of it this way. i think the newish padre owner, pete seidler, let the cat out of the bag for MLB when it comes to finances and income. the padres have the 3rd highest taxed payroll right now and they have been in their entire history one of the small media market teams. mexico, ocean, and desert surrounding it. they had more in common with the pirates than the dodgers, and since this guy took over they're clearly allocating all their money back into the franchise, major league and otherwise. no one will convince me, especially rob manfred, that the angels can not operate similarly to the padres, red sox, dodgers, yankees, etc. the difference has always been in ownership expectations.

the angels can sign ohtani to any contract and have trout, rendon, and more if they wanted to. it's all about profit expectations. the question is going to be, why do the new owners want to own the team, and what kind of vision do they have to increase revenue streams and new category opportunities? i think a new stadium will be a given. prepare for significantly increased ticket prices.

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

The Angels can and will offer him more money than he could even ask for, and I still get the feeling he'll go somewhere else. Someone that spends big and wins. San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, both New York teams, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta.  

Just taking a random guess, but I'm thinking San Francisco to the tune of 11 years and 450 million. 

And he's absolutely going to worth it for a little bit. For the first four years he'll be with the huge investment. At ages 34-35 he'll have a harder time staying healthy in full time duty. At that point they'll do DH and closer, which will work out at 35-36. At age 37 he'll suffer an injury that'll end his pitching career and then he'll be an average DH at 37 and even 38. Come 39 and 40, he'll barely be able to move and be a walking novelty as a future Hall of Famer. 

i didn't realize you were god. this is pretty funny if you intended it as a joke.

[Taylor]

"What is a Half a Billion Dollar Man?" is the name of Matt Walsh's next documentary.

[AngelsLakersFan]

56 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i think of it this way. i think the newish padre owner, pete seidler, let the cat out of the bag for MLB when it comes to finances and income. the padres have the 3rd highest taxed payroll right now and they have been in their entire history one of the small media market teams. mexico, ocean, and desert surrounding it. they had more in common with the pirates than the dodgers, and since this guy took over they're clearly allocating all their money back into the franchise, major league and otherwise. no one will convince me, especially rob manfred, that the angels can not operate similarly to the padres, red sox, dodgers, yankees, etc. the difference has always been in ownership expectations.

the angels can sign ohtani to any contract and have trout, rendon, and more if they wanted to. it's all about profit expectations. the question is going to be, why do the new owners want to own the team, and what kind of vision do they have to increase revenue streams and new category opportunities? i think a new stadium will be a given. prepare for significantly increased ticket prices.

I hate to be the Debbie Downer but you know that Manfred and the league absolutely hate guys like Seidler. Same reason they wouldn't let Mark Cuban buy a team. And who was the guy that put up a stink about Cohen buying the Mets? Arte Moreno. Arte is the guy with the hard line attitude against the MLBPA and who doesn't think his staff should be paid if they aren't producing...

So who is the guy who selects the next owner of the Angels? Arte... let's hope that his greed wins out.

 

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Taylor said:

"What is a Half a Billion Dollar Man?" is the name of Matt Walsh's next documentary.

I can picture it now, a bunch of unintelligent street urchins identify as millionaires and demand everyone give them mansions and private jets so as to not upset their fragile false identity. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I remember when Mark Langston got 5/$15M and everyone was shocked. That was 1990, I think, or thereabouts. that was about triple from a decade ago - I believe Dave Parker got the first million dollar salary in the late 70s, or maybe Dave Winfield, and way up from the top salary of the 50s-60s, which was a bit over $100K.

In the 90s, the top salary when from $3M at the start to I think about $12M at the end. But then it exploded - doubling in just a couple years, when Alex Rodriguez got $25M a year starting in 2001 (Manny got $20M that year, too). His salary went up to $33M in 2009....$9M more than the next guy (still Manny). He was the only player to get $30M until Kershaw in 2015. 

So despite the craziness of salaries, the real explosion - as far as percentages go - is from 1970ish to 2001ish. It was doubling every few years for a lot of that, but still hasn't doubled since 2001, with Scherzer's $43M last year the only $40M contract. Of course once you get to the tens of millions, doubling means something very different.

Once upon a time, people freaked out that Magic Johnson signed a 25 year, 25 million dollar deal with the Lakers 

Lol

Can only imagine what we'll be seeing in 20 years.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, ScottT said:

There's also that reported $10 million in ad revenue.... 

It will be funny when the players start wearing brand ads in their uniforms. And Angels players have Ohtani logos on theirs.

Like all the jerseys say Ohtani like 42 day, but it's every day.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, ukyah said:

 prepare for significantly increased ticket prices.

I'll be totally fine with that, if that what it takes to get this freaking team back to the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'll be watching the games from a bar, not paying that kind of money to go to the stadium.

[m0nkey]

Ohtani going to be a one billion dollar man at the rate these contracts are going.