2023

[Wisconsin27]

I am not necessarily an optimist by nature and this year has been among the toughest to handle since I became a fan in '77.  Every year, I get this same feeling that "if we only address..." and then we ultimately land a few players that I become convinced will solve shit, only to be let down.  So I get it.

However, when I look at our upcoming roster, there is legitimately reason to be optimistic/excited.  I know it's not popular here, but I am a big fan of a healthy Fletcher.  And Rengifo has proven to be MLB caliber.  With the return of Rendo (good or bad, he's going to be 3B), our infield is set outside of 1B.  I realize folks want a proven SS, but given our resource ($) situation, I view it as a "wish," not a "need."

Going into '23, I see areas for an impact/difference at LF, 1B, C, and relief pitching.  Shore those up and with health, we are a playoff contender.  

Yes, Adell could solidify LF by showing out the rest of the way (fingers crossed), Stassi could improve, etc. But we need to have adequate replacements for if/when underperformance/injuries occur.  We all are seeing how shitty our replacements currently are.  It's a joke.  Having MLB caliber guys ready in those situations will do wonders.  Why?   Because this club isn't going anywhere if our super stars aren't healthy for the majority of the year.  When a non-superstar is out, we need MLB production from their replacement.  We don't need "Trout" production, but rather something that will keep the ship afloat.

We are unique in that our SP is pretty damn solid going into the offseason.  Not many teams with playoff hopes can say they'd like to add a 3/4 and/or 5/6 starter to be competitive.  We've got proven guys who will only get better and guys at our farm that have the pedigree to be excited about.  And that's not factoring the Canning/C-Rod/etc. we have.  

Our relief corps seems to be missing one dominant guy as closer.  Identifying that player is probably the toughest thing to do in professional sports, given the volatility.   

It's weird to say this during such a horsehit seatson, but I don't feel we our that far off.  A big bp signing, a couple of middle of the road SP's, and some upgrades at LF/back-up MIF should do it.....given health of our big guys.

We can take the debbie downer approach and add a bunch of other needs.  At the end of day, if Rendon, Trout, Ohatani, Ward, and others stay healthy, I honestly feel it's going to come down to what I shared above

 

[BTH]

The good thing is that the problems the Angels have are fixable. They don’t need to get an ace or get a middle of the order bat.

But what they do need is to find at least average production at C, 1B, SS, LF, and a couple SP’s and RP’s.

 

My vision for 2023:

SP: Ohtani/Sandoval/#3 SP/Detmers/#5 SP/Suarez

RP: Quijada/Herget/Loup/Tepera/RP #5/Wantz/Barría/Davidson

Lineup: Starting C/Starting 1B/Fletcher/Rendon/SS/LF/Trout/Ward/Ohtani

Bench: Stassi/Rengifo/Moniak/Bench 4

Rengifo on the bench provides 3B insurance for Rendon

Some internal candidates could step up for SP5, RP5, or B4

[Wisconsin27]

32 minutes ago, Trendon said:

The good thing is that the problems the Angels have are fixable. They don’t need to get an ace or get a middle of the order bat.

But what they do need is to find at least average production at C, 1B, SS, LF, and a couple SP’s and RP’s.

 

My vision for 2023:

SP: Ohtani/Sandoval/#3 SP/Detmers/#5 SP/Suarez

RP: Quijada/Herget/Loup/Tepera/RP #5/Wantz/Barría/Davidson

Lineup: Starting C/Starting 1B/Fletcher/Rendon/SS/LF/Trout/Ward/Ohtani

Bench: Stassi/Rengifo/Moniak/Bench 4

Rengifo on the bench provides 3B insurance for Rendon

Some internal candidates could step up for SP5, RP5, or B4

I agree with most, but don't see a need to put Regnifo on the bech.

[Stradling]

David Fletcher returned on July 28th and his results have been great.  He’s had a .377 OBP and an .827 OPS. But you know who’s been better since July 28th?  If you said Rengifo you’d be wrong.  Andrew Velazquez has been even better since Fletcher returned.  He has an OBP of .333 and an OPS of .832.  Oh and all three of these guys are allergic to drawing a walk which means it’s natural to be skeptical of these results. Since July 28th Fletcher has 4 walks, Velazquez 3 walks and Rengifo has 1 walk. 

[Angels 1961]

9 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

I am not necessarily an optimist by nature and this year has been among the toughest to handle since I became a fan in '77.  Every year, I get this same feeling that "if we only address..." and then we ultimately land a few players that I become convinced will solve shit, only to be let down.  So I get it.

However, when I look at our upcoming roster, there is legitimately reason to be optimistic/excited.  I know it's not popular here, but I am a big fan of a healthy Fletcher.  And Rengifo has proven to be MLB caliber.  With the return of Rendo (good or bad, he's going to be 3B), our infield is set outside of 1B.  I realize folks want a proven SS, but given our resource ($) situation, I view it as a "wish," not a "need."

Going into '23, I see areas for an impact/difference at LF, 1B, C, and relief pitching.  Shore those up and with health, we are a playoff contender.  

Yes, Adell could solidify LF by showing out the rest of the way (fingers crossed), Stassi could improve, etc. But we need to have adequate replacements for if/when underperformance/injuries occur.  We all are seeing how shitty our replacements currently are.  It's a joke.  Having MLB caliber guys ready in those situations will do wonders.  Why?   Because this club isn't going anywhere if our super stars aren't healthy for the majority of the year.  When a non-superstar is out, we need MLB production from their replacement.  We don't need "Trout" production, but rather something that will keep the ship afloat.

We are unique in that our SP is pretty damn solid going into the offseason.  Not many teams with playoff hopes can say they'd like to add a 3/4 and/or 5/6 starter to be competitive.  We've got proven guys who will only get better and guys at our farm that have the pedigree to be excited about.  And that's not factoring the Canning/C-Rod/etc. we have.  

Our relief corps seems to be missing one dominant guy as closer.  Identifying that player is probably the toughest thing to do in professional sports, given the volatility.   

It's weird to say this during such a horsehit seatson, but I don't feel we our that far off.  A big bp signing, a couple of middle of the road SP's, and some upgrades at LF/back-up MIF should do it.....given health of our big guys.

We can take the debbie downer approach and add a bunch of other needs.  At the end of day, if Rendon, Trout, Ohatani, Ward, and others stay healthy, I honestly feel it's going to come down to what I shared above

 

I agree even bullpen have 5 I would keep. Many other options from within. Going into off season do not think money will be spent. Ohtani is big question mark. You can keep him at 25 to 30 million. New ownership would have to decide to trade or try and sign him. If he says he is going to test free agency, do they trade him? Could be a lame duck off season and same with 2023 with change of ownership.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

David Fletcher returned on July 28th and his results have been great.  He’s had a .377 OBP and an .827 OPS. But you know who’s been better since July 28th?  If you said Rengifo you’d be wrong.  Andrew Velazquez has been even better since Fletcher returned.  He has an OBP of .333 and an OPS of .832.  Oh and all three of these guys are allergic to drawing a walk which means it’s natural to be skeptical of these results. Since July 28th Fletcher has 4 walks, Velazquez 3 walks and Rengifo has 1 walk. 

You gotta like the optimism but this thread feels like people convincing themselves that a 90+ loss team is just a couple tweaks away from the playoffs. Part of the issue this year was the unsurprising result of counting on Fletcher, Velazquez and Rengifo for production. 

We can talk about the need for Rendon and Trout to stay healthy but I think it's fair to say we are at the point where there is no reason to expect that. The team should be constructed with the expectation that both players are going to miss significant time. This means signing at least MLB average players who can play 3rd base and CF.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You gotta like the optimism but this thread feels like people convincing themselves that a 90+ loss team is just a couple tweaks away from the playoffs. Part of the issue this year was the unsurprising result of counting on Fletcher, Velazquez and Rengifo for production. 

We can talk about the need for Rendon and Trout to stay healthy but I think it's fair to say we are at the point where there is no reason to expect that. The team should be constructed with the expectation that both players are going to miss significant time. This means signing at least MLB average players who can play 3rd base and CF.

I actually agree that this team is close enough to a playoff team to push forward trying to make that happen. You have to expect them to be healthy and to bring in good enough back ups to compete if they aren’t. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I actually agree that this team is close enough to a playoff team to push forward trying to make that happen. You have to expect them to be healthy and to bring in good enough back ups to compete if they aren’t. 

I mean I can see the path to being competitive, but it's been that way since year 1 of Joe Maddon, and they have sucked every year. Beyond that they have never charted the course that would have made it possible. Their middle infield solution this year was Duffy, Wade and Velazquez. Their outfield solution was the Salt Lake Bees. Their catching solution was the corpse of Kurt Suzuki. We are already seeing it happen again in this thread... Fletcher is doing well, Velazquez is doing well, Rengifo is doing well, Thaiss caught a shut out yesterday... We just need Rendon and Trout to stay healthy! The justifications for not fixing the team are already written.

Ultimately with Moreno being a lame duck owner we won't see much spending, and we won't see any bold moves. 2023 is certain to be much like 2022, unless we finally get lucky.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I mean I can see the path to being competitive, but it's been that way since year 1 of Joe Maddon, and they have sucked every year. Beyond that they have never charted the course that would have made it possible. Their middle infield solution this year was Duffy, Wade and Velazquez. Their outfield solution was the Salt Lake Bees. Their catching solution was the corpse of Kurt Suzuki. We are already seeing it happen again in this thread... Fletcher is doing well, Velazquez is doing well, Rengifo is doing well, Thaiss caught a shut out yesterday... We just need Rendon and Trout to stay healthy! The justifications for not fixing the team are already written.

Ultimately with Moreno being a lame duck owner we won't see much spending, and we won't see any bold moves. 2023 is certain to be much like 2022, unless we finally get lucky.

It hasn’t been like this since Maddon year 1.  This year is the first year we’ve had pitching. All of that pitching is controllable for next year and outside of Ohtani the next 4-6 years. 

[tdawg87]

The problem is that guys like Rengifo should be bench depth over the Duffys and Wades of the world. But he's probably going to get the majority of starts at 2B next year since we don't have any better options. 

We also have 2 holes in the outfield, but I expect Adell gets one of them. 

And let's not forget how awful Stassi and Walsh have been. Will Walsh even be able to play next year? 

This team needs the rotation to hold steady at the very least, the bullpen to improve significantly, Fletcher and Rengifo to keep playing like they have, Stassi to SIGNIFICANTLY improve, Walsh to improve significantly if he's going to be able to play, Rendon and Trout to stay healthy, Adell to take a massive step forward, Ward to hit closer to his May numbers, and all the depth pieces to provide good value over the 1000+ PA's they'll get.

If all that happens, we can compete for a WC spot. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just now, Stradling said:

It hasn’t been like this since Maddon year 1.  This year is the first year we’ve had pitching. All of that pitching is controllable for next year and outside of Ohtani the next 4-6 years. 

Sure the pitching situation has really improved, but the team as a whole has expected to compete for the playoffs every year since 2020. Every year they patch the holes, say it will hold and then it doesn't. The only difference this year is that the holes in the pitching have become holes in the lineup.

[BTH]

9 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

I agree with most, but don't see a need to put Regnifo on the bech.

As I explained in that post, putting Rengifo on the bench gives the team depth they haven’t had in the past. You can’t expect Rendon to play everyday, so Rengifo being on the bench is a quality backup plan.

Also, a player on the bench can still play 4-5 times a week if they’re on the bench.

Over a week, he could play a game or two at 2B, 3B, and SS, and maybe even the outfield to give guys rest.

[Angel Oracle]

At some point, Trout and Rendon have to stay healthy.

Still say though that the goal is to contend by no later than 2024.

By 2024, they’ll have added Bachman, Bush, Murphy, Joyce, Torres, Erla, O’Hoppe, and Neto plus maybe their 1st round pick in 2023 if a top 5 pick from college.

Of course, Ohtani’s status is a key, and CRod is also a possibility if health permits.

At least break the losing seasons streak at 7 next season.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[HeavenlyHalos]

I feel more comfortable with Fletcher as the utility bench player. I am fine with Rengifo at second as long as we upgrade at SS and 1B in the infield. 

[Wisconsin27]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It hasn’t been like this since Maddon year 1.  This year is the first year we’ve had pitching. All of that pitching is controllable for next year and outside of Ohtani the next 4-6 years. 

This!  I can't recall a time where we were quite this flush with young, controllable arms.  And I am equally excited about the ones that will be arriving over the next two years (Silseth, C-ROD?, Canning, Bush, Bachman, Joyce, etc.).  

I totally understand and agree with ALF's perspective, though.  We get so excited every offseason and try to convince ourselves that enough has been done to be competitive.  I see where my original post was a rinse-repeat version of this cycle that we've been in.  Poorly run organizations usually show their colors and it's likely that will be the case again next year.

But when you take a big-picture view, we sure to appear to have some solid pieces in place.   And that at least keeps me hopeful.

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

I feel more comfortable with Fletcher as the utility bench player. I am fine with Rengifo at second as long as we upgrade at SS and 1B in the infield. 

Good point, as Fletcher plays all 3 spots better than Rengifo does.

Rengifo is a solid 2B, but Fletcher is better at SS and 3B.

Both will get plenty of PAs though, health permitting.

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 minutes ago, Wisconsin27 said:

This!  I can't recall a time where we were quite this flush with young, controllable arms.  And I am equally excited about the ones that will be arriving over the next two years (Silseth, C-ROD?, Canning, Bush, Bachman, Joyce, etc.).  

I totally understand and agree with ALF's perspective, though.  We get so excited every offseason and try to convince ourselves that enough has been done to be competitive.  I see where my original post was a rinse-repeat version of this cycle that we've been in.  Poorly run organizations usually show their colors and it's likely that will be the case again next year.

But when you take a big-picture view, we sure to appear to have some solid pieces in place.   And that at least keeps me hopeful.

There are certainly paths to contention for this team, but will they take them? That is unlikely.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You gotta like the optimism but this thread feels like people convincing themselves that a 90+ loss team is just a couple tweaks away from the playoffs. 

2001-2002!

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

2001-2002!

It worked once before!! lol

[tdawg87]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

It worked once before!! lol

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

2001-2002!

Or a healthy Rendon and Trout for a full season.

[stormngt]

17 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

I am not necessarily an optimist by nature and this year has been among the toughest to handle since I became a fan in '77.  Every year, I get this same feeling that "if we only address..." and then we ultimately land a few players that I become convinced will solve shit, only to be let down.  So I get it.

However, when I look at our upcoming roster, there is legitimately reason to be optimistic/excited.  I know it's not popular here, but I am a big fan of a healthy Fletcher.  And Rengifo has proven to be MLB caliber.  With the return of Rendo (good or bad, he's going to be 3B), our infield is set outside of 1B.  I realize folks want a proven SS, but given our resource ($) situation, I view it as a "wish," not a "need."

Going into '23, I see areas for an impact/difference at LF, 1B, C, and relief pitching.  Shore those up and with health, we are a playoff contender.  

Yes, Adell could solidify LF by showing out the rest of the way (fingers crossed), Stassi could improve, etc. But we need to have adequate replacements for if/when underperformance/injuries occur.  We all are seeing how shitty our replacements currently are.  It's a joke.  Having MLB caliber guys ready in those situations will do wonders.  Why?   Because this club isn't going anywhere if our super stars aren't healthy for the majority of the year.  When a non-superstar is out, we need MLB production from their replacement.  We don't need "Trout" production, but rather something that will keep the ship afloat.

We are unique in that our SP is pretty damn solid going into the offseason.  Not many teams with playoff hopes can say they'd like to add a 3/4 and/or 5/6 starter to be competitive.  We've got proven guys who will only get better and guys at our farm that have the pedigree to be excited about.  And that's not factoring the Canning/C-Rod/etc. we have.  

Our relief corps seems to be missing one dominant guy as closer.  Identifying that player is probably the toughest thing to do in professional sports, given the volatility.   

It's weird to say this during such a horsehit seatson, but I don't feel we our that far off.  A big bp signing, a couple of middle of the road SP's, and some upgrades at LF/back-up MIF should do it.....given health of our big guys.

We can take the debbie downer approach and add a bunch of other needs.  At the end of day, if Rendon, Trout, Ohatani, Ward, and others stay healthy, I honestly feel it's going to come down to what I shared above

 

What we need is back up players that don't suck!

If our backup players can produce 650 ops we would be competing this year.  Instead we have 5 players in the sub 600 ops.  We don't need to break the bank for great players (other than Ohtani) but we do need to sign average players.  Don't give up on Walsh, Rendon or Adell, but their backups need to be 600+ in ops.

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

A big bp signing,

Who were the two best relievers on the FA market last winter?

[tdawg87]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Who were the two best relievers on the FA market last winter?

[Angels 1961]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Who were the two best relievers on the FA market last winter?

Jeff, if Mike Trout wanted to be traded and new ownership wanted to trade him, could they decent prospects. Not paying any of his contract.