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Of course it's about the Money


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We shouldn't be upset anymore. 

We all know the Padres are probably offering Gore, Abrams, Hassell, Campusano and others and Arte doesn't care. 

Arte Moreno will either sign him to a $40M+ AAV deal and not spend anywhere else OR keep him through 2023 and let him walk to free agency.

Don't be surprised. Arte has never changed. He's business first/money second/baseball third.

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4 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

We shouldn't be upset anymore. 

We all know the Padres are probably offering Gore, Abrams, Hassell, Campusano and others and Arte doesn't care. 

Arte Moreno will either sign him to a $40M+ AAV deal and not spend anywhere else OR keep him through 2023 and let him walk to free agency.

Don't be surprised. Arte has never changed. He's business first/money second/baseball third.

Which team isn't business first and baseball second?

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Gore and Lamet are both prime candidates for TJS, Gore is already on the DL with elbow inflammation.  Lamet breaks down when they attempt to start him.  If the Angels can't keep Shohei, I hope we deal him to the Mets or Dodgers, I think we'd get better packages from them. 

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7 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Gore and Lamet are both prime candidates for TJS, Gore is already on the DL with elbow inflammation.  Lamet breaks down when they attempt to start him.  If the Angels can't keep Shohei, I hope we deal him to the Mets or Dodgers, I think we'd get better packages from them. 

I agree but the part of the Article that bothers me is that they won't trade him cause of the Business stand point.  I am in the belief if u own a team make it baseball 1st Business 2nd 

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38 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Which team isn't business first and baseball second?

I can't get inside the heads of all the billionaire owners but in my mind there are a million things to invest in, why own a baseball team if you don't love baseball?

You don't want to lose money but on a decision like trading Ohtani where you aren't going to lose anything why not do what's best for the team?

In the long run you'll make more money on a successful team.

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Yes, all of that is true. I think the bottom line is profit, and while Arte wants to win, he's only willing to spend so much. But he does seem to want to win - just that he'd probably rather make $100 million profit and not make the playoffs, than $50 million and make the playoffs.

There are some owners that are worse, in that they seem not to care at all about winning.

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8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, all of that is true. I think the bottom line is profit, and while Arte wants to win, he's only willing to spend so much. But he does seem to want to win - just that he'd probably rather make $100 million profit and not make the playoffs, than $50 million and make the playoffs.

There are some owners that are worse, in that they seem not to care at all about winning.

So you're saying it's all short-term thinking and with that mindset you're going to have a losing team.

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

So you're saying it's all short-term thinking and with that mindset you're going to have a losing team.

I'm saying I think Arte--like most GMs--will pick profit over winning, if given a choice. Presumably he understand that winning = profit, but also thinks he knows more about baseball than he actually does, which is unfortunate for us.

But clearly he knows business, so I'm guessing he knows what he's doing from a money perspective.

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18 minutes ago, Jay said:

I can't get inside the heads of all the billionaire owners but in my mind there are a million things to invest in, why own a baseball team if you don't love baseball?

Have you seen how much this team has increased in value since Arte bought the team? 

That's tough to beat.

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On 7/29/2022 at 8:06 AM, T.G. said:

They're not going to trade him before the deadline.  They'll try to improve the team this off season and convince Shohei to stay.  Whether or not that works or actually happens is another matter... but that seems most likely.  It seems like Arte's only real option.

 

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If the number we saw, which was $10 million is the amount of money Arte gets from advertising directly related to Shohei, if that number is correct then it really isn’t a big enough number for him to put “profit” first in this decision.  I don’t know what the attendance figures are when he starts versus when he DHs, but I can’t imagine it is a crazy amount.  If any of you want to do the math on that, then I will give you that the cost index of the team has a family of 4 costing $208 to go to an Angel game, or $52 a person.  So if Arte gives Ohtani a $40 million a year deal, then subtract out the $10 million he gets from advertising, now that leaves him with $30 million.  So Shohei would have to bring in over 7000 fans per 81 home games to break even.  He doesn’t do that.  

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5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If the number we saw, which was $10 million is the amount of money Arte gets from advertising directly related to Shohei, if that number is correct then it really isn’t a big enough number for him to put “profit” first in this decision.  I don’t know what the attendance figures are when he starts versus when he DHs, but I can’t imagine it is a crazy amount.  If any of you want to do the math on that, then I will give you that the cost index of the team has a family of 4 costing $208 to go to an Angel game, or $52 a person.  So if Arte gives Ohtani a $40 million a year deal, then subtract out the $10 million he gets from advertising, now that leaves him with $30 million.  So Shohei would have to bring in over 7000 fans per 81 home games to break even.  He doesn’t do that.  

why does he have to break even?  He can just achieve really good margins for that one player.   Maybe payroll is higher right now due to those margins and will actually go down if Shohei were to leave.  

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Once again, Jim Bowden and the other click bait pros have worked some of you into a frenzy. 

Arte isn't going to trade Ohtani.  Ohtani is never going to come out and say...."I won't sign with the Angels."  His recent comments are a shot across the bow.  He's saying make this team better, IMO.  He's not going to say that out loud out of respect to his current teammates.  I also believe he feels some responsibility for the team's failure.  Just a guess on my part.

I believe Arte will do everything he can to sign Ohtani to an extension, all the way until Ohtani either signs with the Angels or signs with another team via FA.  That means, not trading him now and not trading him at any point until his current contract runs out.  It doesn't matter if fans think that's a good idea or not. 

If Ohtani wants to pull a KD and go some place where he feels like he's "joining" a winner (Golden State) to increase his chances of winning instead of "being a part of team that's building a winner" - that's on him.  That's what guys like ARod did when he tried to orchestrate his own trade to Boston and then ultimately the Yankees.  I bet Freddie Freeman has some regret in leaving an organization he helped build to win it all.  He was a part of the process.  Now he's like a hired gun, in room full of hired guns.  Albeit, a well paid hired gun.

Trout made a commitment to stay because he wants to win here.  I'm guessing that winning here means something to him. If Ohtani doesn't feel the same way, that's his choice. 

It's time for Moreno to step up.  This is his most important off season ever.  Don't underestimate Arte on this one.  You can dream about him selling.  You can dream about him making a trade to build for the future.  It's all a fantasy.  He's not selling and he's not trading Ohtani.

Edited by T.G.
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49 minutes ago, Jay said:

I can't get inside the heads of all the billionaire owners but in my mind there are a million things to invest in, why own a baseball team if you don't love baseball?

You don't want to lose money but on a decision like trading Ohtani where you aren't going to lose anything why not do what's best for the team?

In the long run you'll make more money on a successful team.

I have no inside knowledge but with the way MLB is legally structured and with revenue sharing and other unknown subsidies, I think owners make money even with perennial bad teams.  I just don't see a connection between baseball success and profits.

My guess with Ohtani is in his marketability.  And, I still believe there is more talent on the team than being displayed, with the exceptions of the Gosslin/Mayfield type players.

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31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If the number we saw, which was $10 million is the amount of money Arte gets from advertising directly related to Shohei, if that number is correct then it really isn’t a big enough number for him to put “profit” first in this decision.  I don’t know what the attendance figures are when he starts versus when he DHs, but I can’t imagine it is a crazy amount.  If any of you want to do the math on that, then I will give you that the cost index of the team has a family of 4 costing $208 to go to an Angel game, or $52 a person.  So if Arte gives Ohtani a $40 million a year deal, then subtract out the $10 million he gets from advertising, now that leaves him with $30 million.  So Shohei would have to bring in over 7000 fans per 81 home games to break even.  He doesn’t do that.  

I didn't think the gate went exclusively to the home team.  I thought the visiting team got some of the gate.

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4 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I didn't think the gate went exclusively to the home team.  I thought the visiting team got some of the gate.

That is entirely possible.  At the same time that now means he has to bring in even more fans.  

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30 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

why does he have to break even?  He can just achieve really good margins for that one player.   Maybe payroll is higher right now due to those margins and will actually go down if Shohei were to leave.  

Maybe.  But look at the average number of people who actually show up to games.  Do you really think they will take that much of a hit if he were to leave? 

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Oh and if it was just about business, Arte wouldn’t re-sign him either because that then becomes an expense against the value of the team.  His $400 million won’t be looked at as an asset when it comes time to sell and realistically Arte will sell before that $400 million extension ends.  

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10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

But look at the average number of people who actually show up to games.

^^^ This

I bought season tickets in 2004 and for several years, our section was full of season ticket holders.  Most of them came often.  It was like the movie "Fever Pitch" and that section was sort of like our "summer family."  As the losing started, the number of season ticket holders dwindled until eventually, we were the only ones left.  This past season, we finally gave them up.  Mostly because of family obligations - but the incentive to stay wasn't there.  The team was bad and all our "friends" had left.  In fact, they'd been gone for years. 

When we cancelled our season tickets - they told us if we just bought a mini plan for this year - we could keep our "seniority" if we renewed next year.  We didn't. People might still be fans, but they're not showing up at the stadium.  The drop off is real.

As a side note - we still keep in touch with some of old crew... we even went to an Angel game earlier this year with some of them.

Edited by T.G.
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1 minute ago, Stradling said:

That is entirely possible.  At the same time that now means he has to bring in even more fans.  

If you consider the average fan who follows a team not named the Angels, what motivation would make addition non-Angel fans attend a game against the Angels?  Trout + Ohtani.  I am reminded of this every time I see an away game and how many fans are wearing either a Trout or Ohtani jersey.  Still looking for a Gosselin jersey.  I have no idea about how the business side works, but I do suspect that it's someone on the business side not named Arte who actually influences major decisions.

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Shohei would have to bring in over 7000 fans per 81 home games to break even.  He doesn’t do that.  

Sadly the terrible play from the rest of the team will make this feat impossible. 

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1 hour ago, eligrba said:

I have no inside knowledge but with the way MLB is legally structured and with revenue sharing and other unknown subsidies, I think owners make money even with perennial bad teams.  I just don't see a connection between baseball success and profits.

My guess with Ohtani is in his marketability.  And, I still believe there is more talent on the team than being displayed, with the exceptions of the Gosslin/Mayfield type players.

How do you keep them healthy though, especially Trout and Rendon?

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1 hour ago, eligrba said:

If you consider the average fan who follows a team not named the Angels, what motivation would make addition non-Angel fans attend a game against the Angels?  Trout + Ohtani.  I am reminded of this every time I see an away game and how many fans are wearing either a Trout or Ohtani jersey.  Still looking for a Gosselin jersey.  I have no idea about how the business side works, but I do suspect that it's someone on the business side not named Arte who actually influences major decisions.

Carpino or Kuhl

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