Of course it's about the Money

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

How do you keep them healthy though, especially Trout and Rendon?

How do you keep anyone healthy?

You need to ask better questions.

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Carpino or Kuhl

I would guess whoever is the most trusted.  I'm not saying this person is directing baseball decisions but is affecting them in a manner suggesting the baseball plans are developed first then reviewed by the business department.  It's the only way that makes sense to me, especially after the Cole-Rendon pivot.  Lot's of people blame Arte, but I suspect that the true answer of what happened is more complicated.  I just don't believe Arte is involved in the details of the business or baseball departments.  He is a CEO of a billion dollar corporation, he hires people to be mired in the minutiae.  Lastly, think about the standard position that the budget will be extended for the right player.  I suspect the major influencing factor for determining whether the player is the "right player" is the business office and not Arte's impulse.  This is my Angel conspiracy theory.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

How do you keep anyone healthy?

You need to ask better questions.

[notherhalo]

Angels

Business First / Money Second / AL West Last

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

4 hours ago, T.G. said:

How do you keep anyone healthy?

You need to ask better questions.

[AngelStew43]

We cleared about 34 mil in the deadline deals, and another 30 after the season ends, and Upton goes off the books.  Enough to offer Shohei 40 mil and still add a superstar player like Boegarts or Trae Turner.

[Angels 1961]

Players like Boegarts and Turner want to play on winners. Just like Ohtani will. Even if you sign those 2, halos have so many other positions to fill. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:53 AM, Stradling said:

If the number we saw, which was $10 million is the amount of money Arte gets from advertising directly related to Shohei, if that number is correct then it really isn’t a big enough number for him to put “profit” first in this decision.  I don’t know what the attendance figures are when he starts versus when he DHs, but I can’t imagine it is a crazy amount.  If any of you want to do the math on that, then I will give you that the cost index of the team has a family of 4 costing $208 to go to an Angel game, or $52 a person.  So if Arte gives Ohtani a $40 million a year deal, then subtract out the $10 million he gets from advertising, now that leaves him with $30 million.  So Shohei would have to bring in over 7000 fans per 81 home games to break even.  He doesn’t do that.  

You need to include a baseline as well…. Call it replacement level marketability. Take someone like Alex Cobb who they value around $10 mil, how many people does he bring to the park? How about Velazquez, etc…

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if 7000 people attend a game purely due to Ohtani.

 

[Stradling]

57 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You need to include a baseline as well…. Call it replacement level marketability. Take someone like Alex Cobb who they value around $10 mil, how many people does he bring to the park? How about Velazquez, etc…

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if 7000 people attend a game purely due to Ohtani.

 

Maybe when he pitches, maybe. 

[floplag]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:26 AM, angelsnationtalk said:

We shouldn't be upset anymore. 

We all know the Padres are probably offering Gore, Abrams, Hassell, Campusano and others and Arte doesn't care. 

Arte Moreno will either sign him to a $40M+ AAV deal and not spend anywhere else OR keep him through 2023 and let him walk to free agency.

Don't be surprised. Arte has never changed. He's business first/money second/baseball third.

business first/money second/a whole bunch of other stuff like land purchases and whatnot/more stuff we dont know about/baseball somewhere way down the list.

[Angels 1961]

11 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You need to include a baseline as well…. Call it replacement level marketability. Take someone like Alex Cobb who they value around $10 mil, how many people does he bring to the park? How about Velazquez, etc…

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if 7000 people attend a game purely due to Ohtani.

 

How many fans would go if Angels had a winning team. What would crowds look like in August and September.

[tomsred]

Sorry, but I don't think the fluctuation in attendance is anywhere close as important as TV/media revenue.

[Swordsman78]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:14 AM, Jay said:

I can't get inside the heads of all the billionaire owners but in my mind there are a million things to invest in, why own a baseball team if you don't love baseball?

You don't want to lose money but on a decision like trading Ohtani where you aren't going to lose anything why not do what's best for the team?

In the long run you'll make more money on a successful team.

Possibly because trading Ohtani may not be "best for the team".

[Jay]

15 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if 7000 people attend a game purely due to Ohtani.

Assuming that's true, it would be cheaper for Arte to give the tickets away for free, than to sign Ohtani.

7000 x $50/ticket x 81 games = $28.35 million

[Jay]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

How many fans would go if Angels had a winning team. What would crowds look like in August and September.

Exactly. What you need is a winning team that gets everyone excited. Nobody gets excited about a shitty team even if it has Ohtani.

[tdawg87]

[Taylor]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:34 AM, Angelsjunky said:

But clearly he knows business, so I'm guessing he knows what he's doing from a money perspective.

Some of these old farts knew how to be financially successful back in the day, but as they get older they don't really adapt. They have more than enough money to live out the rest of their days regardless.

[ten ocho recon scout]

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

Exactly. What you need is a winning team that gets everyone excited. Nobody gets excited about a shitty team even if it has Ohtani.

It's crazy.

Pujols. Super duper star. All time great.

Hamilton. Super duper star. (At the time at least)

Trout. Super duper star. All time great.

Ohtani. Super duper star. (At the time).

This team has had more star power in the past decade than all but a handful of teams. And nowhere near the success as when we had a bunch of underrated home town stars. Guys who were stars to us but not the rest of the country.

Reminds me of the Pistons vs Jordan back in the day. (Thogh Thomas is pretty underrated as an all time great)

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Assuming that's true, it would be cheaper for Arte to give the tickets away for free, than to sign Ohtani.

7000 x $50/ticket x 81 games = $28.35 million

If team was winning an extra 10 to 15,000 a game in fans. All those beer drinking AW members going could afford a decent SS

[Angelsjunky]

42 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Some of these old farts knew how to be financially successful back in the day, but as they get older they don't really adapt. They have more than enough money to live out the rest of their days regardless.

Well, this goes down another rabbit hole, but touches on the myth that "rich people worked hard to get their money." Most didn't - even the vast majority of the very wealthy (deca-millionaires and up). 

I don't know a lot about Arte Moreno, but isn't he a "self-made" billionaire? I mean, aside from any exploitation and sketchy dealings along the way. His Wikipedia page says he is one of 11 children in a family that immigrated from Mexico, and his father ran a print shop. He joined the army and went to Vietnam, and then returned and got a degree in marketing. He worked at an advertising firm for seven years, then eventually bought it out with a partner. It went public in 1996 and stock soared, then he sold it to Infinity (paraphrased from Wikipedia).

What I didn't know is that back in 1986, he was part of a group of 18 investors (including Bill Murray) who bought the Salt Lake Trappers, an independent baseball team. In 2001, he tried and failed to buy the Diamondbacks, and then purchased the Angels for $180 million in 2003. As of this year, they're valued by Forbes at $2.2 billion, 9th highest among major league franchises (the Yankees are first at $6B, the Marlins last at $990B).

Meaning, it sounds like he was raised as middle class - his father a small business owner - but then became a billionaire on his own steam. That requires a good amount of economic savvy.

As much as I've complained about Arte, I do think he likes--even loves--baseball. It isn't only about the money. The problem seems to be this weird combination of insistence on staying within budget and what amounts to "impulse buys," which has led to a lot of albatross contracts.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:31 AM, eligrba said:

Which team isn't business first and baseball second?

Yankees

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, Jay said:

Assuming that's true, it would be cheaper for Arte to give the tickets away for free, than to sign Ohtani.

7000 x $50/ticket x 81 games = $28.35 million

I personally don’t believe that many fans show up to see him. Maybe when he pitches but probably not.