What is the minimum trade package you'd accept for Ohtani right now (if you were Perry Minasian)?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can't believe I forgot @Lou.

@Dave Saltzer, @Tank, @Jason, @UndertheHalo.

Too late. I don't play second fiddle.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, Lou said:

Too late. I don't play second fiddle.

You know you're a top five poster to me.

 

[UndertheHalo]

My bad @Angelsjunky

 

i’m not trading Ohtani period unless he tells me that he won’t sign with the Angels.  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

You know you're a top five poster to me.

 

I do.

[Jason]

35 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can't believe I forgot @Lou.

@Dave Saltzer, @Tank, @Jason, @UndertheHalo.

Your poll has been validated as I have now voted 

[tdawg87]

[CanadianHalo]

8 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

To the Dodgers for:  Pitchers Bobby Miller, Mitch White, and Dustin May, Catcher Diego Cartaya, and infielders Michael Busch and Gavin Lux.  

 

May, Lux and Cartaya then 1 of Miller/White and I make peace with that trade

You can replace Ohtani the hitter with a Josh Bell type who signed a 1yr 10mill deal 

If the Angels want to give themselves any chance at turning this train wreck around in the near future Ohtani needs to be dealt before the deadline. They can’t handcuff themselves with another massive deal to someone who’ll be 29 when he’s due a new deal

Once this deadline passes teams trading for Ohtani will only be guaranteed one season with him. So the time to trade him is now.

With all of that said, the Angels won’t trade him because Arte will not allow it. Ohtani brings in too much revenue. Until Arte sells the team the Angels aren’t going to be competitive. 

[Dave Saltzer]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can't believe I forgot @Lou.

@Dave Saltzer, @Tank, @Jason, @UndertheHalo.

Honestly, it depends on what type of prospects we are talking about and when we are talking about. If the players match up with our needs better, I'd take less prospects if what we got better fit. 

 

For example, 2 65 FV pitchers and a 55 catcher all of whom are ready by 2023 is more useful than 3 60+ OFers and 2 45 grade MIFers who won't all be ready until 2025.

 

Right now, I'd trade him for 2 60+ starting pitchers, a 55+ catcher and a lottery pick from any position and in low A ball.

 

In the offseason, I'd want 1 60+ starting pitcher another 60 player (preferably another SP but I'd be a bit more flexible), and a 50+ catcher. 

 

I would first make a very large and public offering to try and sign him in the offseason, but, if he won't sign, you have to trade him. 

 

I think trading him in the offseason makes a lot more sense for everyone. But, if some team wants to blow us away with an offer right now, I'd do it. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

The Angels could also offer him a wakizashi and say, "It is dishonorable to leave the Angels. Your choice."

 "First it was Pearl Harbor. And now this."

(Yeah, it's a cheap low blow. But we don't have much left to try)

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can't believe I forgot @Lou.

@Dave Saltzer, @Tank, @Jason, @UndertheHalo.

wow, didn't even make the first list of invites? my heart hurts.

i went ahead and voted, but i wasn't enthusiastic about it because of this.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I voted AJ. And I never vote.

(But I'm not even sure I picked right)

[Angelsjunky]

Sorry, @Tank - you know I love you too.

[Jason]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This is exactly the way my bulldog acted when it was time for his bath

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Dave Saltzer said:

Honestly, it depends on what type of prospects we are talking about and when we are talking about. If the players match up with our needs better, I'd take less prospects if what we got better fit. 

 

For example, 2 65 FV pitchers and a 55 catcher all of whom are ready by 2023 is more useful than 3 60+ OFers and 2 45 grade MIFers who won't all be ready until 2025.

 

Right now, I'd trade him for 2 60+ starting pitchers, a 55+ catcher and a lottery pick from any position and in low A ball.

 

In the offseason, I'd want 1 60+ starting pitcher another 60 player (preferably another SP but I'd be a bit more flexible), and a 50+ catcher. 

 

I would first make a very large and public offering to try and sign him in the offseason, but, if he won't sign, you have to trade him. 

 

I think trading him in the offseason makes a lot more sense for everyone. But, if some team wants to blow us away with an offer right now, I'd do it. 

I think if Dodgers end up with Soto, SD will come with huge offer. 

[WicketMaiden]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

It saddens me that @Docwaukee, @Inside Pitch, @Second Base, @rafibomb, @totdprods, @T.G., @ten ocho recon scout, @tdawg87, @WicketMaiden, @Blarg, @failos and other forum regulars haven't voted. Come on, guys, put your nuts on the chopping block.

Forgive me if I didn't include you in that list - those are just the folks that came to mind. 

@Angelsjunky You know I wouldn't ignore an AJ thread. I was actually the first to reply... but I haven't voted because there isn't an option that reflects my point of view. 

On 7/31/2022 at 12:53 AM, WicketMaiden said:

I'd want more than all of those choices. 

[Angelsjunky]

12 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

@Angelsjunky You know I wouldn't ignore an AJ thread. I was actually the first to reply... but I haven't voted because there isn't an option that reflects my point of view. 

Haha, ok - so the first one, then.

[WicketMaiden]

46 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Haha, ok - so the first one, then.

No, not at all. I would consider trading him, but I'd want someone to gut their farm for him and throw in an MLB ready piece or two. I'd only trade him now for a deal that makes you go wow.

He's a franchise altering player, a once in a lifetime talent and a marketing dream who plays two positions to an elite level. And I can only imagine what a good manager could do with the extra flexibility Ohtani could offer in a post-season run. He makes the Padres serial contenders and the Dodgers pretty much untouchable if he goes to either of those teams. For all that, I want a haul that blows your poll choices out of the water.

[totdprods]

It’s hard to say what I’d take at a minimum in a vacuum. As others have said, we don’t know what Ohtani Is thinking. Arte and Perry probably don’t yet either.

I’m honestly having a really hard time believing the Angels will be good next year. There are just too many needs. The farm won’t fill them all, spending again won’t fill them all, half of each won’t fill them all. I don’t want a rebuild, but logically I’m having a hard time not thinking a rebuild is necessary. And that goes beyond trading Ohtani. I think they have to consider moving one or two of Ward, Sandoval, and/or Walsh, and try to get out of some of the money tied up. Be it Iglesias, Stassi, Fletcher, Loup, Tepera. Not really all of those, not in that order, but I would try and free up money based on what we’d get back, and who the whole trade return would potentially displace or replace. 

Quite simply the Angels need like 10-15 good players in order to compete. We aren’t getting that in one trade. We aren’t getting that from within apparently. We aren’t getting that in free agency. We need something fairly drastic if we want to compete. I’m hoping Trout - and still maybe Ohtani - have enough baseball sensibility and enjoy SoCal enough that they could see a quick rebuild as being the best way to commit to a successful 2020s, and that it might mean writing off 2023 and even 2024.

The number of players who have seen MLB time this year who really shouldn’t be anything more than AAA depth - or should still be developing in the minors - is ridiculous. We can’t fix that within - we don’t have the quantity. We can’t fix that spending. It’s hard to not say trading Ohtani, Ward, Sandoval, Quijada, and netting 12+ young players close to contributing - while having money to spend (perhaps on Ohtani if he isn’t dealt) isn’t at least a totally viable option. Especially in a sellers market. Between a rebuild like that and Perry’s last two drafts, I think we’d also be in a place of strength to actually make trades for guys like Luis Castillo or hell even Juan Soto within a year or so. It’d be nice to have a deep farm and the ability to trade for talent, which I still believe to be the safest and most immediate way to improve a club, rather than counting on rushed prospects or spending in FA. Getting to that should be the goal to get us out of this.

Don’t like it, don’t want it, but hard to not say it isn’t an option.

Edited August 1, 2022 by totdprods

[T.G.]

First of all, I would do everything possible to sign Ohtani. I would not trade him, period. If he wants to play for the Yankees or Dodgers, he’ll have to do that on his own via free agency. That’s a topic for a separate post…

Secondly, I don’t know enough about other teams or their prospects to propose a trade that I would never do. I also don’t think the odds of that being a game changer is pretty small.

Thirdly, I don’t know enough about the 20/80 rating system to provide an answer and I am not going to pretend like I do.

Bottom line, my voting would be a waste of your time and mine. Let guys who have an opinion on all this do their thing. You don’t need me, but THANKS for asking.

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

While I want Ohtani to stay and hope he gets an extension to do so, I disagree with your take Jeff. 

A team that trades for Ohtani has not just the player/prospect capital to do so, but also the lure to stay & money to pay. 

I can see the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees taking that risk knowing they have what it takes to make Ohtani the highest paid player in baseball and are willing to cough up the young players and top prospects in a gamble to keep him. 

So at very worst, they have the best player in baseball that in an already crazy media market in actual LA and New York they get Ohtani for two October's to shine in the postseason in an effort to bolster their chances at a World Series Championship. Ohtani is going to fill every seat in the stands and have so many fans glued to their TV's watching him on television networks. 

The Dodgers, Mets, Yankees and even the Braves if you want to include them have good scouting and draft well. They can recover in a couple years, while still putting a winning club on the field with or without Ohtani should he walk. 

Do you think the Dodgers would trade Gonsolin and Lux? Because that’s the kind of deal the Angels would need to make. 

[BTH]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Do you think the Dodgers would trade Gonsolin and Lux? Because that’s the kind of deal the Angels would need to make. 

I think the Dodgers would give up Lux.

Gonsolin, probably not. But you don’t need Gonsolin back, as May or Miller would work. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I think the Dodgers would give up Lux.

Gonsolin, probably not. But you don’t need Gonsolin back, as May or Miller would work. 

That’s where I disagree. I think the Angels want to win in 2023. So if they’re going to trade Ohtani it has to be for someone or some package that makes them almost as good in 23 as they would be with Ohtani. 

Yes, you can argue that even if the players you acquire alone don’t make you better you can still get better with the money you save on Ohtani, but I still think they want the package itself to be as good as possible in 2023.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

30 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s where I disagree. I think the Angels want to win in 2023. So if they’re going to trade Ohtani it has to be for someone or some package that makes them almost as good in 23 as they would be with Ohtani. 

Yes, you can argue that even if the players you acquire alone don’t make you better you can still get better with the money you save on Ohtani, but I still think they want the package itself to be as good as possible in 2023.

 

And on that note, do teams that have enough to afford Ohtani think he's really worth giving up the type of package that's "fair", to fans or the Angels org?

In reality, Ohtani is a unicorn. What he does is cool as hell.

But if you're the Dodgers (or any similar team), what are you gaining by trading for him? I guess there's some marketability. But the Dodgers don't really need help there. I'm not sure they can sell more seats. They do fine already.

The other "problem" is Ohtani Isa DH only. This is going to limit things. Just because again, if you're the Dodgers, and the Angels want say a SS or C involved in the deal, the Dodgers might balk because of roster issues. (More complicated than I'm making it sound).

I just think that as good as Ohtani is, the Angels are going to be hard pressed to get equal value in return. Even close to it. Because the team trading for him isn't going to want to gut the 4 guys the Angels want in return, unless it's literally all prospects.

[rafibomb]

It makes me sad voting but I did. For me, those 45-50 FV guys would need to be young enough around the High-A level that still have the upside to be 55 FV guys in the future and the 55 FV guys be damn close to major league ready. I don’t know how realistic or unrealistic that is. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s where I disagree. I think the Angels want to win in 2023. So if they’re going to trade Ohtani it has to be for someone or some package that makes them almost as good in 23 as they would be with Ohtani. 

Yes, you can argue that even if the players you acquire alone don’t make you better you can still get better with the money you save on Ohtani, but I still think they want the package itself to be as good as possible in 2023.

I understand that’s your position, which is why I said May or Miller could work.

May will be back from TJ this season and has already established himself as a major league caliber SP when healthy. The Angels depended on Ohtani & Syndergaard coming off TJ, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t do the same if they were to acquire May.

Bobby Miller has been very solid in AA this season, his stuff is amazing, and the Angels have shown no reluctance in promoting a pitcher straight from AA if they believe they have good enough stuff (see Silseth in 2021 and Junk at the end of last season) And Miller has eay better stuff than those two. Plus he’d still have the rest of this season to develop even further or get a taste of the majors.