What is the minimum trade package you'd accept for Ohtani right now (if you were Perry Minasian)?

[ThisismineScios]

I think what’s unique to the Angels’ situation is the owner having more than just final say—you have to convince him to lose out on merchandise and advertising money. We also know that Arte loves flash and attention. He’s going to want to get a record return so he’s not a laughingstock forever. So when Perry goes to him. He’s not using FV. It’s the Office skit where Michael says, “Tell me like I’m an 8-year old.” (Perry explain future values and such). “Ok, explain it to me like I’m 5.” That’s how Arte wants to see it. How do I win this trade; how does it help us? I’d think in those terms we need a good major leaguer to help us next year—a mid rotation starter or a Chris Taylor type. Next, a young player that’s good now, say Gavin Lux. Another young player who is very good but whose stock has taken a minor, minor hit—say Dustin May. A very good prospect at a premium position—Cartaya. And finally two good prospects, that could turn into depth or could possibly become everyday starters. 

Perry may have his wish list, but it is not the same as Arte’s. It’s going to take something Arte can use to win in the court of public opinion. Also, I think it leans more towards helping next year than on the prospect side. 

[Erstad Grit]

48 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

To the Dodgers for:  Pitchers Bobby Miller, Mitch White, and Dustin May, Catcher Diego Cartaya, and infielders Michael Busch and Gavin Lux.  

That is the price to pay for Ohtani, who is 1.9 WAR as a hitter and 3.2 as a pitcher.  Ohtani is basically irreplaceable.

I may throw in Barria, the Dodgers could continue to use him as a spot starter or reliever.  

 

This and I'd make them take Iglesias, whom they actually might want.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, AngelStew43 said:

To the Dodgers for:  Pitchers Bobby Miller, Mitch White, and Dustin May, Catcher Diego Cartaya, and infielders Michael Busch and Gavin Lux.  

That is the price to pay for Ohtani, who is 1.9 WAR as a hitter and 3.2 as a pitcher.  Ohtani is basically irreplaceable.

I may throw in Barria, the Dodgers could continue to use him as a spot starter or reliever.  

 

Dodgers won’t give up that much for 220 games of Ohtani.  

[Angels 1961]

If Padres miss out on Soto watch AJ make big push for Ohtani. That's AJ Prellar not Angel Junky

[Angels 1961]

Just now, Stradling said:

Dodgers won’t give up that much for 220 games of Ohtani.  

I agree but if Minasian is trading Ohtani he must engage all teams to get best deal.  It is more than 220 games because of playoffs.

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Dodgers won’t give up that much for 220 games of Ohtani.  

I think you’re both right. That’s what the Angels need to get back. And no team is going to give that up. 
 

That’s why he’s not getting traded. 
 

You can’t make a “Fair” trade with Ohtani. You have to win the trade. And that’s just about impossible. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

14 hours ago, gotbeer said:

Track record of the Angels would be we get fleeced and are the laughingstock of the MLB.  

That would actually be a decent enough defense to keep him and let him walk in FA.

"LOL! You guys are idiots! You didn't get anything for him"

 

"You think we would have if we traded him? It's us you're talking about here.... hey-yoooo. It's papa moreno"

 

All the laughter dies out. Recognition of a solid point.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think you’re both right. That’s what the Angels need to get back. And no team is going to give that up. 
 

That’s why he’s not getting traded. 
 

You can’t make a “Fair” trade with Ohtani. You have to win the trade. And that’s just about impossible. 

Trading him is the smartest move. But nobody here will be upset if they resign him, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

That said, I think you can win this trade. If you're able to flip Ohtani for another bona-fide SP on the young side, and another usable piece, you win the trade.

Not in the eyes of fans or media. That will never happen. But in the success of the team I think you do. The money you save by not locking him up gets spread around more evenly, and hopefully a better roster than one megastar and black holes everywhere else.

[ThisismineScios]

18 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Trading him is the smartest move. But nobody here will be upset if they resign him, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

That said, I think you can win this trade. If you're able to flip Ohtani for another bona-fide SP on the young side, and another usable piece, you win the trade.

Not in the eyes of fans or media. That will never happen. But in the success of the team I think you do. The money you save by not locking him up gets spread around more evenly, and hopefully a better roster than one megastar and black holes everywhere else.

I think nobody is 100% sure he’s not coming back (including Ohtani), and therefore they can’t trade him. If he said I’m not coming back, Perry would pivot immediately and try to convince Arte. Arte would be tempted to milk one more year, and not be easily convinced. He also absolves himself of blame if Ohtani leaves on his own. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

13 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think nobody is 100% sure he’s not coming back (including Ohtani), and therefore they can’t trade him. If he said I’m not coming back, Perry would pivot immediately and try to convince Arte. Arte would be tempted to milk one more year, and not be easily convinced. He also absolves himself of blame if Ohtani leaves on his own. 

I sincerely hope Ohtani wants to stay. But I just can't see it. And I don't think money convinces him. Or at least I don't think money is any way at the top of his list. (He's getting paid huge no matter where he goes).

He just strikes me as someone a lot more concerned with winning and making big historic moments than being comfortable and rich. Whereas I think 90 percent of pro athletes are money first (and I don't blame them), I think he'd rather be remembered than rich.

[DCAngelsFan]

6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I sincerely hope Ohtani wants to stay. But I just can't see it. And I don't think money convinces him. Or at least I don't think money is any way at the top of his list. (He's getting paid huge no matter where he goes).

He just strikes me as someone a lot more concerned with winning and making big historic moments than being comfortable and rich. Whereas I think 90 percent of pro athletes are money first (and I don't blame them), I think he'd rather be remembered than rich.

He can get money anywhere.  I agree, I think he wants to (continue to) make his mark, and he wants to win.

I think he could still elect to stay out of reasons of comfort and loyalty - but not if the team is going nowhere.  Only way (imo) he resigns is to convince him that not only will the Angels win with him, but no more promises, that it actually happens next year.  The team has to make huge strides to make that happen, and that probably means one of two things:

1.  Some budget-blasting absurd moves on the part of Arte, like signing Judge, Turner, and Musgrove 

2. Some combination of better health, luck, and improvement in young players gets us deep into contention next season

Blowing past the CBT - I think many of us said that if Arte were ever going to go all in, it was each of the last two off-season.  He didn't then, so why would he do it now?   And he might've waited too long as it is

Second option - it could - I mean, if Trout and Rendon each had healthy years with 140+ games, and nothing else bad happened, and many of the youngsters made strides and ...  

Who am I kidding, this is the Angels we're talking about, where health outcomes are always the worst-case.

The most logical thing is to trade him for some elite guaranteed future All-Star prospects - but it'd be a PR disaster.   And has been said, no one will pay what he's worth.  

Who'd ever guess that having the most mesmerizing players in baseball on the team could be so depressing - we can keep Ohtani for another meaningless season and a half, then he leaves, or we trade him to another team and hope we can compete someday, while an aging Trout watches less-than-replacement-level scrubs who couldn't carry his jockstrap lift the World Series trophy year after year.

 

 

[Chuck]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think you’re both right. That’s what the Angels need to get back. And no team is going to give that up. 
 

That’s why he’s not getting traded. 
 

You can’t make a “Fair” trade with Ohtani. You have to win the trade. And that’s just about impossible. 

While I want Ohtani to stay and hope he gets an extension to do so, I disagree with your take Jeff. 

A team that trades for Ohtani has not just the player/prospect capital to do so, but also the lure to stay & money to pay. 

I can see the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees taking that risk knowing they have what it takes to make Ohtani the highest paid player in baseball and are willing to cough up the young players and top prospects in a gamble to keep him. 

So at very worst, they have the best player in baseball that in an already crazy media market in actual LA and New York they get Ohtani for two October's to shine in the postseason in an effort to bolster their chances at a World Series Championship. Ohtani is going to fill every seat in the stands and have so many fans glued to their TV's watching him on television networks. 

The Dodgers, Mets, Yankees and even the Braves if you want to include them have good scouting and draft well. They can recover in a couple years, while still putting a winning club on the field with or without Ohtani should he walk. 

[Swordsman78]

No way Arte trades Ohtani or lets him walk.   For a Billionaire owner, its more than winning baseball games.   It overall Flex and Swag of having the marquee guys.  Also the guys mentioning the peripheral stuff like marketing,  advertising, Japanese fans and market etc.   Arte is in the battle for LA.  If he can't beat the Dodgers, at least he can have the higher profile guys.  

Arte would rather lose games with Trout and Ohtani, than rebuild with a bunch of no name better than ave players and lose his Big D energy.

Baseball nerds just don't get it.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Mentioned it before, but only thing I can think of that might work is massive guaranteed money with player options every year (or so).

"Please stay, here's scrooge mcduck money, but if you aren't happy you can leave".

We can also try guilt tripping him. "We could have won a few years ago, but we needed pitching, and you had tommy John" (sips drink, looks away). "But fine, leave if you want.... now that we fixed your arm" (puts drink back down on its saucer. Walk outside and stare at sky with hands on hips, like forrest Gump when he told Jenny he knows what love is)

 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

No way Arte trades Ohtani or lets him walk.   For a Billionaire owner, its more than winning baseball games.   It overall Flex and Swag of having the marquee guys.  Also the guys mentioning the peripheral stuff like marketing,  advertising, Japanese fans and market etc.   Arte is in the battle for LA.  If he can't beat the Dodgers, at least he can have the higher profile guys.  

Arte would rather lose games with Trout and Ohtani, than rebuild with a bunch of no name better than ave players and lose his Big D energy.

Baseball nerds just don't get it.

How has that swag worked out? Pujols, Hamilton, Rendon. Ohtani is leaving in trade or FA after next year. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, DCAngelsFan said:

He can get money anywhere.  I agree, I think he wants to (continue to) make his mark, and he wants to win.

I think he could still elect to stay out of reasons of comfort and loyalty - but not if the team is going nowhere.  Only way (imo) he resigns is to convince him that not only will the Angels win with him, but no more promises, that it actually happens next year.  The team has to make huge strides to make that happen, and that probably means one of two things:

1.  Some budget-blasting absurd moves on the part of Arte, like signing Judge, Turner, and Musgrove 

2. Some combination of better health, luck, and improvement in young players gets us deep into contention next season

Blowing past the CBT - I think many of us said that if Arte were ever going to go all in, it was each of the last two off-season.  He didn't then, so why would he do it now?   And he might've waited too long as it is

Second option - it could - I mean, if Trout and Rendon each had healthy years with 140+ games, and nothing else bad happened, and many of the youngsters made strides and ...  

Who am I kidding, this is the Angels we're talking about, where health outcomes are always the worst-case.

The most logical thing is to trade him for some elite guaranteed future All-Star prospects - but it'd be a PR disaster.   And has been said, no one will pay what he's worth.  

Who'd ever guess that having the most mesmerizing players in baseball on the team could be so depressing - we can keep Ohtani for another meaningless season and a half, then he leaves, or we trade him to another team and hope we can compete someday, while an aging Trout watches less-than-replacement-level scrubs who couldn't carry his jockstrap lift the World Series trophy year after year.

 

 

The Angels are not winning with Ohtani on the team.

Take a look at today's lineup, there is one player (Ohtani) in it above 1.0 fWar so far this year.

[Angelsjunky]

49 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Mentioned it before, but only thing I can think of that might work is massive guaranteed money with player options every year (or so).

"Please stay, here's scrooge mcduck money, but if you aren't happy you can leave".

We can also try guilt tripping him. "We could have won a few years ago, but we needed pitching, and you had tommy John" (sips drink, looks away). "But fine, leave if you want.... now that we fixed your arm" (puts drink back down on its saucer. Walk outside and stare at sky with hands on hips, like forrest Gump when he told Jenny he knows what love is)

 

The Angels could also offer him a wakizashi and say, "It is dishonorable to leave the Angels. Your choice."

[Angelsjunky]

One factor that may curb interest in Ohtani is the six-man rotation thing. Presumably, with about a third of the season left, a contender could probably manage it with off days, and also rest the other starters. But it might be a hassle next year.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think you’re both right. That’s what the Angels need to get back. And no team is going to give that up. 
 

That’s why he’s not getting traded. 
 

You can’t make a “Fair” trade with Ohtani. You have to win the trade. And that’s just about impossible. 

Here’s the catch though.

If Arte and Perry can’t get Ohtani to sign a new contract, then they would only get a sandwich round draft pick if he walks away.

Is that what Arte wants?

Is that what the fans want?

To be the Red Sox 104 years later?

[ThisismineScios]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Here’s the catch though.

If Arte and Perry can’t get Ohtani to sign a new contract, then they would only get a sandwich round draft pick if he walks away.

Is that what Arte wants?

Is that what the fans want?

To be the Red Sox 104 years later?

Difference if he walks is Arte can say it was his decision, he tried, we wanted him. 

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

To be the Red Sox 104 years later?

No

[Angelsjunky]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

While I want Ohtani to stay and hope he gets an extension to do so, I disagree with your take Jeff. 

A team that trades for Ohtani has not just the player/prospect capital to do so, but also the lure to stay & money to pay. 

I can see the Dodgers, Mets and Yankees taking that risk knowing they have what it takes to make Ohtani the highest paid player in baseball and are willing to cough up the young players and top prospects in a gamble to keep him. 

So at very worst, they have the best player in baseball that in an already crazy media market in actual LA and New York they get Ohtani for two October's to shine in the postseason in an effort to bolster their chances at a World Series Championship. Ohtani is going to fill every seat in the stands and have so many fans glued to their TV's watching him on television networks. 

The Dodgers, Mets, Yankees and even the Braves if you want to include them have good scouting and draft well. They can recover in a couple years, while still putting a winning club on the field with or without Ohtani should he walk. 

Yeah, I agree with this. I'd add the Orioles as a darkhorse, though. They have more good prospects (six at 50+ FV) than any org in baseball and have a payroll of only $30M, plus are trying to stake their claim as legit again.

That said, I do still see them as a surprise darkhorse - and the teams you mention as more likely (plus maybe add the Padres to the mix) - but if the Orioles wanted him, they have the prospects to both make Perry an offer he can't refuse and outbid anyone else.

[Angelsjunky]

On the other hand, the Angels could threaten Ohtani that they're going to trade him to, I don't know, the Royals unless he signs and extension. I'm guessing he'd prefer to stay on the West Coast, or at least play for a NY team.

[Angelsjunky]

It saddens me that @Docwaukee, @Inside Pitch, @Second Base, @rafibomb, @totdprods, @T.G., @ten ocho recon scout, @tdawg87, @WicketMaiden, @Blarg, @failos and other forum regulars haven't voted. Come on, guys, put your nuts on the chopping block.

Forgive me if I didn't include you in that list - those are just the folks that came to mind. 

[Angelsjunky]

I can't believe I forgot @Lou.

@Dave Saltzer, @Tank, @Jason, @UndertheHalo.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Angelsjunky