How many more losses before the team makes a shake up trade?

[mmc]

Ok well we've fired the manager, and if we keep losing, the next way the team can make a major shakeup to the clubhouse is via a trade.  Though a GM (or a smart one at least), shouldn't make a major trade based on a small sample size of games, if we continue to lose, it seems like it would be inevitable.  When do you think the team would need to shake up the roster?

[Angelsjunky]

Hopefully that won't happen. "Shake-up trades" are usually knee-jerk, and often cause more harm than good in the long-term. Plus, there's not even a hint that any specific player is problematic in the clubhouse. This is a systemic problem, or at least team-wide malaise. I mean, what are they going to do, trade Jo Adell for a reliever? Michael Stefanic for a clean peanut?

I hate to be so blithe, but to some degree this is probably just a combination of bad luck, injuries, and a weird confluence of slumping players. The problem is mostly psychological, and has to be solved from within. 

While I think it is very unlikely that the Angels reach the playoffs--see my other post for the lack of any precedents in the 21st century--I think the only question is whether they'll be close enough to contention by the end of July to make any moves, or if it is fire-sale time. Then they try to get whatever they can get for Loup, Tepera, Bradley, even Raisel, and guys like Wade and Duffy.

 

[Angelsfan1984]

How big of a return will Thor bring? 

[Angelsfan1984]

Oh and also I forgot to mention that this team is special. 

[tomsred]

I agree Angelsjunkey.  The next inflection point will be in about a month from now.  I would add that Thor might be an effective trade piece.  A total middle infield rebuild will likely be in the works.  Maybe I am in the minority at this point, but I really don't trust Perry at this point to effectively pull this off.  In retrospect, I think Eppler was on a much better path than what we have seen so far from Perry.  I hope he proves me wrong, but he's struggling so far in effectively doing his job in my opinion.

[Taylor]

3 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

How big of a return will Thor bring? 

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, tomsred said:

I agree Angelsjunkey.  The next inflection point will be in about a month from now.  I would add that Thor might be an effective trade piece.  A total middle infield rebuild will likely be in the works.  Maybe I am in the minority at this point, but I really don't trust Perry at this point to effectively pull this off.  In retrospect, I think Eppler was on a much better path than what we have seen so far from Perry.  I hope he proves me wrong, but he's struggling so far in effectively doing his job in my opinion.

Yes. If they're below .500, they'll try to trade Thor - and maybe Lorenzen, both of whom could theoretically net some decent prospects.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes. If they're below .500, they'll try to trade Thor - and maybe Lorenzen, both of whom could theoretically net some decent prospects.

I trade Ohtani he will bring back the biggest package of prospects.

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I trade Ohtani he will bring back the biggest package of prospects.

Just spitballin here but I bet Ohtani could probably bring back both a high end starter and a middle of the order bat.  That would be a great head start on making this team a lot better.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Sully151]

There is no way Arte will trade his biggest marketing piece, no matter what they get back in return.

[cals]

I agree with AJ.  I’d hate to be in Blythe, too.

[Angel Oracle]

45 minutes ago, cals said:

I agree with AJ.  I’d hate to be in Blythe, too.

Now, would you say that?

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Just spitballin here but I bet Ohtani could probably bring back both a high end starter and a middle of the order bat.  That would be a great head start on making this team a lot better.

Maybe not that much with just a year and half left before he hits FA. This team cannot afford another 400 mill contract. Would have to be to team who could afford to sign him. Angels young pitchers a year or 2 away.

[Dtwncbad]

14 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Maybe not that much with just a year and half left before he hits FA. This team cannot afford another 400 mill contract. Would have to be to team who could afford to sign him. Angels young pitchers a year or 2 away.

How do you know what they can afford?  You are talking about the most marketable player in baseball and you have zero knowledge of what the owner can afford or what he would be OK paying.

[failos]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

you have zero knowledge

Very true

[Angels 1961]

21 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

How do you know what they can afford?  You are talking about the most marketable player in baseball and you have zero knowledge of what the owner can afford or what he would be OK paying.

Trout, Rendon and add Ohtani 3 players at 115 mill a year. That would be too much. Remember halos in midst of 7th straight losing season. Would Ohtani want to sign with Angels or test market as the most marketable player in baseball? I would trade him get as many assets as you can for him before he leaves. Angels will be in same boat this off season needing starting pitchers. Thor and Lorenzen will be gone if not traded at deadline. Remember Artie has not gone over lux tax and I feel he is getting tired of spending big bucks on long term deals. Ohtani most talented player ever to play this game and Trout one of best all time but they cannot put a winning team on field in last 7 years.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

Trout, Rendon and add Ohtani 3 players at 115 mill a year. That would be too much. Remember halos in midst of 7th straight losing season. Would Ohtani want to sign with Angels or test market as the most marketable player in baseball? I would trade him get as many assets as you can for him before he leaves. Angels will be in same boat this off season needing starting pitchers. Thor and Lorenzen will be gone if not traded at deadline. Remember Artie has not gone over lux tax and I feel he is getting tired of spending big bucks on long term deals. Ohtani most talented player ever to play this game and Trout one of best all time but they cannot put a winning team on field in last 7 years.

You just keep throwing up words in rants that have very little relationship with anything other than your own slanted, personal agenda based speculations.

You have said trade Ohtani how many times?  Buddy, whether you like it or not the team is going to try to win now.  And that means Ohtani isn’t getting traded.

You should stick to pining away for Alex Cobb.  At least people can stomach that as you just like the guy versus having to try to take you seriously with your “trade Ohtani” nonsense that is simply a delusion about what this team is and what it is trying to do.

[BTH]

I'm not sure what "shake up trade" there is to make.

If the losing streak continues, I think they start to make some changes on the fringes of the roster. (Lagares, Velazquez, Wade, etc.)

 

One thing I think the Angels need to do is become more active on the waiver wire.

Everyone here liked to joke about Eppler and his "clean peanuts" but he actually found some useful players for periods of time by picking up players on waivers. The only guys Perry has really picked up on waivers are Mayfield, Velazquez, and Wade. In order to be successful at identifying guys off waivers (like Zaidi in SF), you need to cycle through a bunch of those guys giving them opportunities to see if they sink or swim. All the players I referenced above have sunk, so DFA them and try others out.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

You just keep throwing up words in rants that have very little relationship with anything other than your own slanted, personal agenda based speculations.

You have said trade Ohtani how many times?  Buddy, whether you like it or not the team is going to try to win now.  And that means Ohtani isn’t getting traded.

You should stick to pining away for Alex Cobb.  At least people can stomach that as you just like the guy versus having to try to take you seriously with your “trade Ohtani” nonsense that is simply a delusion about what this team is and what it is trying to do.

I know they are trying to win now and I hope they turn it around. After 6 losing seasons I see not much has changed

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

You just keep throwing up words in rants that have very little relationship with anything other than your own slanted, personal agenda based speculations.

You have said trade Ohtani how many times?  Buddy, whether you like it or not the team is going to try to win now.  And that means Ohtani isn’t getting traded.

You should stick to pining away for Alex Cobb.  At least people can stomach that as you just like the guy versus having to try to take you seriously with your “trade Ohtani” nonsense that is simply a delusion about what this team is and what it is trying to do.

Here is what i would do if I was Artie Moreno. Get 5 or 6 people together to study how Tampa runs their team. Why with such a low payroll year after year put a winning team on the field. What the halos are doing is not working and changes need to happen. I ask you what would you do if you were Artie? 

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Here is what i would do if I was Artie Moreno. Get 5 or 6 people together to study how Tampa runs their team. Why with such a low payroll year after year put a winning team on the field. What the halos are doing is not working and changes need to happen. I ask you what would you do if you were Artie? 

Buy great tequila and tell stories.

[mmc]

Can we make one yet?

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, mmc said:

Can we make one yet?

Honestly if they do want to trade they are better off waiting until actual contender needs begin to develop, guys like Syndergaard and Lorenzen could probably fetch some decent prospects. 

Anyway, if history is any indication most "shake up trades" tend to piss off the clubhouse.

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Honestly if they do want to trade they are better off waiting until actual contender needs begin to develop, guys like Syndergaard and Lorenzen could probably fetch some decent prospects. 

Anyway, if history is any indication most "shake up trades" tend to piss off the clubhouse.

More than a 14 game losing streak? 

[Duren, Duren]

Trading player(s) for player(s) is much rarer than it used to be. With free agency, waiver wire activity, draft picks, future considerations, complex contracts in the equation you just don't see many of the old style one for one or package deals of roster players. It could be refreshing to actually see Minasian wheeling and dealing at the major league level.

So far he's been pretty conservative. But a decent roster olayer needs to be moved to change the complacency of the team. Shuffling around fringe players doesn't move the needle. We don't know what we really have with Ward for instance, but his asset value may be higher than it ever will be. Marsh also could bring back a useful return. Not sure about Walsh at this point. But he could bring back multiple players perhaps. And there are a number of pitchers who can be dealt. 

The most dramatic way to shake up a team is a big trade. Right now, the team is too complacent and has hardly any depth.