how many losses until SOMETHING changes?

[BTH]

12 straight losses and nothing has changed.

What an absolute joke.

 

I don't care if it's irrational, but someone needs to be held responsible. You cannot lose 12 straight games and continue as if nothing is wrong.

[Jason]

There is already a thread for this

[Angelsjunky]

Actually, that might be exactly what they need to do. A lot of bad choices are made when you're down. Sometimes you just have to see it through the old-fashioned way.

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

There is already a thread for this

the more the merrier

what a disgrace

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Actually, that might be exactly what they need to do. A lot of bad choices are made when you're down. Sometimes you just have to see it through the old-fashioned way.

I disagree.

Firing Maddon is at worse an indifferent move. At best, it makes a difference.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I disagree.

Firing Maddon is at worse an indifferent move. At best, it makes a difference.

We don't have enough information to know what impact firing Maddon would have. I mean, what if he is the father figure of the team, and the players take comfort from him in their shared suffering? In that case, the best route is to make their way through this, and be stronger for it. But if they fire him, it could destroy any hopes of getting it together again, at least this year.

If Perry doesn't fire him, the above is probably true. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

Fire Trout

[tdawg87]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

We don't have enough information to know what impact firing Maddon would have. I mean, what if he is the father figure of the team, and the players take comfort from him in their shared suffering? In that case, the best route is to make their way through this, and be stronger for it. But if they fire him, it could destroy any hopes of getting it together again, at least this year.

If Perry doesn't fire him, the above is probably true. 

Gee, I hope Papa Maddon can help the millionaires come out of their 12 game losing streak by giving them extra hugs!

Fuck off.

[bloodbrother]

Relegate the Angels to the NPB

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Gee, I hope Papa Maddon can help the millionaires come out of their 12 game losing streak by giving them extra hugs!

Fuck off.

This is the Main Board.

This needs to stop.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

This is the Main Board.

This needs to stop.

K pal.

[Lou]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

K pal.

[Docwaukee]

how many losses until something changes?  

probably about 80.  

[UndertheHalo]

One day they will simply win.  And that will be that.  Maybe tomorrow. 

[Angelsjunky]

Toby needs a big Maddon hug.

[Taylor]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Toby needs a big Maddon hug.

#dawgtoo

[stormngt]

51 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I disagree.

Firing Maddon is at worse an indifferent move. At best, it makes a difference.

Agreed

[stormngt]

46 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We don't have enough information to know what impact firing Maddon would have. I mean, what if he is the father figure of the team, and the players take comfort from him in their shared suffering? In that case, the best route is to make their way through this, and be stronger for it. But if they fire him, it could destroy any hopes of getting it together again, at least this year.

If Perry doesn't fire him, the above is probably true. 

If you scenario had any validity then we wouldn't have loss 12 straight and is it 3 wins over last 18?

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, stormngt said:

If you scenario had any validity then we wouldn't have loss 12 straight and is it 3 wins over last 18?

I don't follow. My scenario is simply that maybe the players have a positive bond with Joe. That doesn't necessarily stop them from losing 12 straight.

 

[stormngt]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

I don't follow. My scenario is simply that maybe the players have a positive bond with Joe. That doesn't necessarily stop them from losing 12 straight.

 

Yes they have a bond with 12 game losing streak.  If their relationship with Maddon was the reason why they are playing "well" they wouldn't he on a 12 game losing streak.

I am sure Maddon has a good relationship with his players.  And I am not sure if firing him may make the players tank or not.

I do know it this, the best chance of turning it around and become a playoff team is to fire Maddon.  It is highly unlikely that their "fondess" of Maddon would all of a sudden make them play better.

It's more likely a change would pass them off and play better.

That Saud it may make no difference at all.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, stormngt said:

Yes they have a bond with 12 game losing streak.  If their relationship with Maddon was the reason why they are playing "well" they wouldn't he on a 12 game losing streak.

I am sure Maddon has a good relationship with his players.  And I am not sure if firing him may make the players tank or not.

I do know it this, the best chance of turning it around and become a playoff team is to fire Maddon.  It is highly unlikely that their "fondess" of Maddon would all of a sudden make them play better.

It's more likely a change would pass them off and play better.

That Saud it may make no difference at all.

You're making a lot of assumptions, and then seem to realize it in the last sentence.

The biggest one that a lot of folks are making, and that I teetered on making then decided against it, is that Joe Maddon is the main factor in the slump. But what do we have to go on? He's just a scapegoat. 

The bottom line is that the players are performing poorly. Maddon isn't doing that to them. Now I do think he has a role in the overall mentality of the club, but we don't know if anything he is doing--say, the love-and-light vibes and such--are having any impact on the wins and losses.

My main point is that none of us, afaik, have any clue what goes on within the clubhouse or, more importantly, what impact Maddon is having. We know he's made some dubious calls, but every manager does that - and he did that when they were 24-13.

In the end, I'm going to chalk this up to a combination of a handful of things going wrong at the same time, and a resulting snowball effect. They're going to snap out of it, and I'd err on the side of waiting a bit longer before firing the manager.

[stormngt]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

You're making a lot of assumptions, and then seem to realize it in the last sentence.

The biggest one that a lot of folks are making, and that I teetered on making then decided against it, is that Joe Maddon is the main factor in the slump. But what do we have to go on? He's just a scapegoat. 

The bottom line is that the players are performing poorly. Maddon isn't doing that to them. Now I do think he has a role in the overall mentality of the club, but we don't know if anything he is doing--say, the love-and-light vibes and such--are having any impact on the wins and losses.

My main point is that none of us, afaik, have any clue what goes on within the clubhouse or, more importantly, what impact Maddon is having. We know he's made some dubious calls, but every manager does that - and he did that when they were 24-13.

In the end, I'm going to chalk this up to a combination of a handful of things going wrong at the same time, and a resulting snowball effect. They're going to snap out of it, and I'd err on the side of waiting a bit longer before firing the manager.

I have seen a lot of underachieving teams turn it around after the firing of their manager.  

I rarely see underachieving teams play worse after firing the manager.  And I rarely see underachieving teams (without major injuries to key players) turn it around later in the year.

My point:

Firing Maddon would not make the team worse.  And it may make the team better.

Unless there us the thought of bringing Maddon back, or they are not good enough to turn it around  they should fure Maddon now and give them a chance to fire the players up.

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I have seen a lot of underachieving teams turn it around after the firing of their manager.  

I rarely see underachieving teams play worse after firing the manager.  And I rarely see underachieving teams (without major injuries to key players) turn it around later in the year.

My point:

Firing Maddon would not make the team worse.  And it may make the team better.

Unless there us the thought of bringing Maddon back, or they are not good enough to turn it around  they should fure Maddon now and give them a chance to fire the players up.

I hear your point, but my counter-point:

We simply don't know what effect firing Maddon would have. Maybe they'd improve, maybe not.

Or just maybe, their performance has very little to do with Maddon. I mean, I get the "light the fire" approach - and maybe Perry will use Maddon as a sacrificial lamb. But I think he has a much better sense of things we just speculate about, so it is almost impossible to speculate what he's thinking, because we don't know what he knows.

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

One day they will simply win.  And that will be that.  Maybe tomorrow. 

imagine if they win one and then go on another losing streak.

[ukyah]

angelsjunky is making all the sense in this thread.

stormngt is upset at a losing streak, and it's understandable.

i like that one of them is so sure he's right.