how many losses until SOMETHING changes?

[tomsred]

Regarding the title of this thread, you don't make changes because of a specific number of losses.  You make changes for "specific reasons" that are having a negative impact on the performance of your team.  For example, a player is too old and can be replaced by a cheaper and more effective younger player (the Pujols decision last year).  Example, a pitching coach is giving bad advice to a pitcher.  Example, a manager doesn't use metrics provided by his staff in setting up defensive positioning.  The more specific you can be about why you are making a change with anyone the better, and it helps in effective replacement of that coach or player as well.

If Perry is going to replace Maddon, who exactly is he replacing him with and specifically what will that person do to make the team better.  Now I know what someone will say, he needs to be replaced because the losses indicate something is generally ineffective, doesn't matter just replace.  That's a cop out, I would want to know what specifically is going to be done by the new person that isn't being done now.  Otherwise the person making the change (Perry?) is never going to be held accountable for his decision making.    

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, tomsred said:

Regarding the title of this thread, you don't make changes because of a specific number of losses.  You make changes for "specific reasons" that are having a negative impact on the performance of your team.  For example, a player is too old and can be replaced by a cheaper and more effective younger player (the Pujols decision last year).  Example, a pitching coach is giving bad advice to a pitcher.  Example, a manager doesn't use metrics provided by his staff in setting up defensive positioning.  The more specific you can be about why you are making a change with anyone the better, and it helps in effective replacement of that coach or player as well.

If Perry is going to replace Maddon, who exactly is he replacing him with and specifically what will that person do to make the team better.  Now I know what someone will say, he needs to be replaced because the losses indicate something is generally ineffective, doesn't matter just replace.  That's a cop out, I would want to know what specifically is going to be done by the new person that isn't being done now.  Otherwise the person making the change (Perry?) is never going to be help accountable for his decision making.    

True Dat.

[Angelsfan1984]

So who would have been mad had perry given joe an extension during the 10 game winning streak? It’s baseball. Right now it blows. 

[Blarg]

I would. 

[Dtwncbad]

9 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

We don't have enough information to know what impact firing Maddon would have. I mean, what if he is the father figure of the team, and the players take comfort from him in their shared suffering? In that case, the best route is to make their way through this, and be stronger for it. But if they fire him, it could destroy any hopes of getting it together again, at least this year.

If Perry doesn't fire him, the above is probably true. 

I don’t want to have a manger that provides comfort in suffering (losing).

Fire him.

[stormngt]

9 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I hear your point, but my counter-point:

We simply don't know what effect firing Maddon would have. Maybe they'd improve, maybe not.

Or just maybe, their performance has very little to do with Maddon. I mean, I get the "light the fire" approach - and maybe Perry will use Maddon as a sacrificial lamb. But I think he has a much better sense of things we just speculate about, so it is almost impossible to speculate what he's thinking, because we don't know what he knows.

I agree with what you say.  I really don't blame Maddon.  However, I am the camp that we need to do something.  Unlike previous years, this losing streak isn't do to bad luck from devastating injuries to key people.  Last year we lost Trout, 2018 we lost Ohtani arm and lost our entire pitching staff.  I believe 2017 and 2016 we also lost our entire pitching staff.   Hell even 1995 we lost Discarcina.

We have no major injuries this year.  So what do we do?  I am fearful without a chabge the team will eventually give up.

 

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, tomsred said:

Regarding the title of this thread, you don't make changes because of a specific number of losses.  You make changes for "specific reasons" that are having a negative impact on the performance of your team.  For example, a player is too old and can be replaced by a cheaper and more effective younger player (the Pujols decision last year).  Example, a pitching coach is giving bad advice to a pitcher.  Example, a manager doesn't use metrics provided by his staff in setting up defensive positioning.  The more specific you can be about why you are making a change with anyone the better, and it helps in effective replacement of that coach or player as well.

If Perry is going to replace Maddon, who exactly is he replacing him with and specifically what will that person do to make the team better.  Now I know what someone will say, he needs to be replaced because the losses indicate something is generally ineffective, doesn't matter just replace.  That's a cop out, I would want to know what specifically is going to be done by the new person that isn't being done now.  Otherwise the person making the change (Perry?) is never going to be help accountable for his decision making.    

Very frequently pro franchises fire their coaches for no reason other than trying to fire up the players.  Sometimes it has worked.

[floplag]

Whats supposed to change?  Is there any one thing you can point to and say this is the cause?  What do we have to change it to thats any better?   

I get the anger, im as down on this team as ive literally ever been, just another season of high hopes shat all over, i guess not waiting till September is a blessing.. but honestly what changes make any real difference at this point?

People screaming for Maddons head, i dont get that at all... how many managers have we had without it changing now?  He has to use what hes given or has available, they have to produce, they arent.  Ive never understood how thats the managers fault.   Yes hes made a few odd moves but you can bet every one of them was justified by the analytics so are you going to fire the computer?  Whos going to take over thats going to do anything different or better? 

Be careful what you ask for as the only thing we havent done is a complete blow up.  Start trading everyone, rebuild it from the ground up.. and yes that would include Trout/Ohtani etc... for whatever you can get and start over.  Arte isnt going to spend more, thats beyond contestation at this point, so thats out only other option, is that what you want? 

[70runner]

Imperfect storm.  Best hitter in baseball abruptly turns into an out walking to the plate, Iglesias serving up hanging chads instead of 98mph heat, Ohtani suddenly becomes an average player with a 100mph fastball, along with a staff ERA of about 7 over the last 11 games.  Such are some of the components of an 12 game losing streak.  As these players aren’t going anywhere, reactions from the keyboard universe trend toward firing the manager and/or GM fest.

If the imperfect storm continues, Maddon will likely be a casualty. Such is the way in baseball. Examining the components of the streak doesn’t suggest a change in dugout management will remedy same.  Maddon is putting the same guys on the lineup card that were doing the job for 35 games and making the same bullpen selections.  This streak seems to be more of several key players afflicted with slumpovid at the same time.  Why?  Only the baseball gods know. 

[PattyD22]

1 hour ago, 70runner said:

Imperfect storm.  Best hitter in baseball abruptly turns into an out walking to the plate, Iglesias serving up hanging chads instead of 98mph heat, Ohtani suddenly becomes an average player with a 100mph fastball, along with a staff ERA of about 7 over the last 11 games.  Such are some of the components of an 12 game losing streak.  As these players aren’t going anywhere, reactions from the keyboard universe trend toward firing the manager and/or GM fest.

 

If the imperfect storm continues, Maddon will likely be a casualty. Such is the way in baseball. Examining the components of the streak doesn’t suggest a change in dugout management will remedy same.  Maddon is putting the same guys on the lineup card that were doing the job for 35 games and making the same bullpen selections.  This streak seems to be more of several key players afflicted with slumpovid at the same time.  Why?  Only the baseball gods know. 

 

I appreciate you posting this in a font that didn’t require me to go grab my glasses.  Many thanks.  
 

And valid points also.

[katie]

12

[Halokingfish]

The most impactful change would be Arte selling the team, but that isn't happening anytime soon. 

[PattyD22]

Well, something changed.  Today is the correct answer.

[katie]

1 hour ago, katie said:

12

I WIN

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, katie said:

I WIN

Send this lady a chicken dinner.

[HanfordGuy]

 

[HanfordGuy]

3 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Send this lady a chicken dinner.

[Angels 1961]

The things change the more they remain the same