Angels tender Raisel Iglesias the QO (Iglesias rejects)

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Weren't there posters here that were adamant the Angels would NOT offer him the QO? Not just in one post but in many of their post for months now too. And not that they don't think they should but that the Angels would NOT offer him it. Like they thought they had some kind of inside info

The tweet meant that Raisel got a raise so named him Raised.

I didn’t think they would or should. I’m sure there’s others. But you very well could be talking about me. 

[HanfordGuy]

7 hours ago, drpiranha said:

Raisel is probably insulted that his 1st name is wrong and won't be an Angel now.

 

If we change the name of the thread to, “Angels make Raisel their ‘Tenderoni’,” he’ll accept the QO and give a hometown discount on an extension.

[HanfordGuy]

 

[ThisismineScios]

I think the reason this is good is because they offered it. By offering it, you are willing to accept that you could pay a reliever $18.4 million. Arte would never, ever have done this before because relievers are the least sexy signing possible. Perry 100% needed Arte's permission to offer, and the fact that they did is a positive sign regarding Moreno's willingness to spend on pitching this offseason. And, hopefully, his willingness to allow Perry and his team to make their own decisions. Last offseason reeked of Arte--Quintana was a total Arte move. But it seems Maddon's (and Trout's?) pushing has given Perry a little more autonomy to pursue pitching. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I didn’t think they would or should. I’m sure there’s others. But you very well could be talking about me. 

or me.  I feel the same way to some degree unless they are absolutely certain he's not going to take it.  And I have a bit of a problem if they truly have 50m to spend and even come close to spending a third of that on a reliever.  Would having him back be awesome?  Absolutely.  With the caveat that I'd rather spend that money on an everyday SS or starter.  Again, just about anyone could go out and pay full retail for any player.  Where a good GM earns their money is where they find value in not having to do that.  Whether it be at the major league level or in the minors.   And in the minors it's getting value from drafting and developing and how that can help the major league club with the actual player or in trade.  

I still contend that the way the Angels are run sets their GM's up for failure in many ways but they're not the only club that does that.  Fortunately.  

[UndertheHalo]

I don’t really have a strong opinion on the QO - I probably lean towards it’s the right move.  I don’t think he’ll accept it and if the Angels fail to sign him it’s better to get the comp pick.  Overall I do think the angels should try and keep him but he’s going to be pricey and they have a bunch of areas to address.  He’s going to get 15 to 16 million aav no matter what.  3 million more for one year.  I don’t know.  That seems like a who care to me.  I guess my thing is that if he does accept the offer and that situation really hampers the angels then they’re screwed anyway.  If Art isn't going to be aggressive with the purse strings this off-season then it doesn’t really matter what happens.  At that point it’s just what Minasian can make happen out of the value bin.  Which,  I mean hopefully he has success but it’s a tough ask.  Don’t really have a lot of reason to believe the Angels are suddenly much better at scouting and developing guys. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[beatlesrule]

The problem is that comp pick is not better than what Arte could have gotten at the trade deadline.

[Revad]

37 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

The problem is that comp pick is not better than what Arte could have gotten at the trade deadline.

True.  But because it could be accepted and is high it may increase motivation to sign him to a multi-year deal and maybe the first year is 14m or so.  4-5M to spend on a set up guy, SS or catcher.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

or me.  I feel the same way to some degree unless they are absolutely certain he's not going to take it.  And I have a bit of a problem if they truly have 50m to spend and even come close to spending a third of that on a reliever.  Would having him back be awesome?  Absolutely.  With the caveat that I'd rather spend that money on an everyday SS or starter.  Again, just about anyone could go out and pay full retail for any player.  Where a good GM earns their money is where they find value in not having to do that.  Whether it be at the major league level or in the minors.   And in the minors it's getting value from drafting and developing and how that can help the major league club with the actual player or in trade.  

I still contend that the way the Angels are run sets their GM's up for failure in many ways but they're not the only club that does that.  Fortunately.  

This is how I feel.  If the budget is between $50-60 million and Raisel for whatever reason accepts the QO then its going to be very difficult to fill the other spots.  We will most likely see a drop off in his actual performance from last year, because the team went undefeated when leading going into the 9th.  That isn’t happening again.  I personally just see $16-18 million for a guy pitching 60 innings as a bad way to spend money, especially with the volatility of closers.  But as someone upthread said, the best thing to come out of this is maybe Arte is willing to spend a bit more money, which will help complete the roster.  

[Junkballer]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is how I feel.  If the budget is between $50-60 million and Raisel for whatever reason accepts the QO then its going to be very difficult to fill the other spots.  We will most likely see a drop off in his actual performance from last year, because the team went undefeated when leading going into the 9th.  That isn’t happening again.  I personally just see $16-18 million for a guy pitching 60 innings as a bad way to spend money, especially with the volatility of closers.  But as someone upthread said, the best thing to come out of this is maybe Arte is willing to spend a bit more money, which will help complete the roster.  

I would rather have an overpaid Iglesias anchor the BP and hope Minasian's primary reliever aqcuisition(s) adequately fill the setup role, pushing Meyers, Quijada, Warren back to earlier innings.  With Iglesias, I have more faith that Minasian can find an adequate setup arm and a #2 type starter, which can make the BP an area of strength and the rotation slightly above average, than him building an excellent rotation while having to fill in setup AND closer roles.

Overpayment and slight downturn yes, but I see Iglesias as close to a good bet on continued performance as Minasian is likely to find in any starter.  And I see the BP as their primary need for building stability being that the rotation just needs to be augmented and filling SS may be one of his easier tasks.

[eligrba]

I thought spending money on the bullpen was a bad idea.

How does this affect Arte's budget?

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I thought spending money on the bullpen was a bad idea.

How does this affect Arte's budget?

It negatively affects it. 

[tdawg87]

I'm gay

[Jason]

29 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm gay

[ThisismineScios]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

This is how I feel.  If the budget is between $50-60 million and Raisel for whatever reason accepts the QO then its going to be very difficult to fill the other spots.  We will most likely see a drop off in his actual performance from last year, because the team went undefeated when leading going into the 9th.  That isn’t happening again.  I personally just see $16-18 million for a guy pitching 60 innings as a bad way to spend money, especially with the volatility of closers.  But as someone upthread said, the best thing to come out of this is maybe Arte is willing to spend a bit more money, which will help complete the roster.  

Yeah, that's what I think--it's a least a good omen. And in a perfect world I'd agree that we shouldn't use 1/3 of our budget on a reliever. But you have to plug the holes that are sinking the ship. And for the Angels, it has been the back end of the bullpen until last year. The bullpen was actually decent last year; 1-2 of the young guys they gave a chance will stick there. Starting pitching has been a major issue, yes, but even last year we saw positive trends with Ohtani, Sandoval, Suarez, and Detmers (at times). If they sign two really good starters (total of $40-45 million between the two) to push those guys into spots 3-6, or Cobb and an ace ($30-35 million) to re-shuffle everyone, I'd be fine with that. 

I think the other thing to consider is that it's clear they are not going to spend big on SS. So the needs are SP, SP, RP, C, SS probably in that order. They are going to pursue guys via trade--in the J Iglesias mold--and if it doesn't work out, they will let Rengifo, Mayfield, and Davis battle it out. Rengifo as your 8 hole hitter (Fletcher 9) isn't really a bad option. And he drives me crazy. 

[aznhockeyguy]

If the Angels are not going to resign him, it's poor asset management, because they should've traded him at the deadline instead.  Not sure what Iglesias ask is, but I'm never a fan of spending a lot of money on closers/bullpen in general. 

[Docwaukee]

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

This is how I feel.  If the budget is between $50-60 million and Raisel for whatever reason accepts the QO then its going to be very difficult to fill the other spots.  We will most likely see a drop off in his actual performance from last year, because the team went undefeated when leading going into the 9th.  That isn’t happening again.  I personally just see $16-18 million for a guy pitching 60 innings as a bad way to spend money, especially with the volatility of closers.  But as someone upthread said, the best thing to come out of this is maybe Arte is willing to spend a bit more money, which will help complete the roster.  

I don't necessarily have a problem with spending that kind of money on a lock down closer.  And I actually think he'll perform similar without much drop off.  Elite relievers tend to have less volatility.  But I just don't see the budget going up to accommodate him.  And I'd rather have a good SS and a decent closer than a crappy SS and a really good but highly expensive closer.  

again, it's gonna boil down to how Minasian fills out the roster on guys who don't cost a lot.  So if he decides to spend a good chunk of his budget on Raisel then so be it but he better have a good plan for the rest and it better work.  

[HanfordGuy]

11 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm gay

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 11/7/2021 at 8:38 PM, beatlesrule said:

Weren't there posters here that were adamant the Angels would NOT offer him the QO? Not just in one post but in many of their post for months now too. And not that they don't think they should but that the Angels would NOT offer him it. Like they thought they had some kind of inside info

The tweet meant that Raisel got a raise so named him Raised.

I was kind of on an island when I suggested that the Angels needed to make Iglesias the QO.

I personally would’ve traded him, but once they didn’t they were locked in. If you plan on bringing him back the QO isn’t significantly more than the expected annual salary on a three year deal.

It’s debatable whether or not a reliever is worth that kind of coin but I think Iglesias is. Just look at the Angels performance in games he played. Even if you throw that out he’s a roughly 2 war player which puts him in the $15-20m range. So sure, there will be more efficient uses for that money this off season, but given their track record the Angels usually fair worse.

[Junkballer]

9 hours ago, HanfordGuy said:

 

She mispronounced Angel Hernandez.

[Bronson]

Perry is not going to let this guy get away. He will overpay for Raisel if he has to. Could come back to bite us in the ass but Raisel will be coming back to the Angels one way or another.

The only way I could see him not coming back is if he was not happy here but since he already said he’s open to returning, that’s basically a moot point.

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, Bronson said:

Perry is not going to let this guy get away. He will overpay for Raisel if he has to. Could come back to bite us in the ass but Raisel will be coming back to the Angels one way or another.

The only way I could see him not coming back is if he was not happy here but since he already said he’s open to returning, that’s basically a moot point.

Raisel will end up with Dodgers

[HanfordGuy]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Raisel will end up with Dodgers

[greginpsca]

5 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Raisel will end up with Dodgers

TI thought for awhile that Boston might go after him. But now i think the team to worry about him going to is Seattle. They can spend more than $150 mil and still be under the tax.

[Junkballer]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Raisel will end up with Dodgers

I think they pencil in Treinen as closer and acquire a setup man or two.  They actually have a few other slots to fill.