How much longer will it be before fans can be confident going into the season that we are a playoff team?

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, stormngt said:

So once again. The team should have been better the last decade. Havent you figured out that my argument is based on a decade of years.  Not fives years not last year.  The last decade.

I would think the fact I highlighted the term decade would have caught you attention!

If our struggles were only five years I wouldn't be making this argument 

I have some great news for you.  We have only struggled for the last five years.  The five year period before that we had four winning records, including a 98 win season, one losing record and averaged 87 wins a season.  Now I know that seems like I am just being argumentative, but it is also the reality.  It shows why they didn’t burn it to the ground, which again would have been pretty much impossible because they didn’t have much to trade and seldom were the tradeable assets healthy enough to trade.  It always felt like they were health away from going to the playoffs.  

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The reason we haven’t been better the last five years have to do with things that happened before those five years. 

That's not entirely true.  It's a factor, but Billy Eppler also signed or acquired horrible pitchers year after year...  not just starters either... guys like Jim Johnson and Andrew Bailey who ended their careers in Anaheim on sour notes.  Cody Allen and his $8.5 million contract was a bust.  We all know how horrible Cahill and Harvey were... but let's not forget - Ricky Nolasco, Hector Santiago, Jhoulys Chacin, Dillon Peters, Chris Stratton and on and on...

 

[ThisismineScios]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea except you are missing the point entirely.  The reason we haven’t been better the last five years have to do with things that happened before those five years.  Nine years ago we hired a GM that couldn’t draft, gave out shitty contracts and traded away the farm.  Now we are still stuck with one contract, from that guy, and building a farm when we had no one of significant value to trade except the one guy you can’t trade. 

Which also prevents us from having the prospect capital to trade for guys who suddenly become available or team fire sales. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

That's not entirely true.  It's a factor, but Billy Eppler also signed or acquired horrible pitchers year after year...  not just starters either... guys like Jim Johnson and Andrew Bailey who ended their careers in Anaheim on sour notes.  Cody Allen and his $8.5 million contract was a bust.  We all know how horrible Cahill and Harvey were... but let's not forget - Ricky Nolasco, Hector Santiago, Jhoulys Chacin, Dillon Peters, Chris Stratton and on and on...

 

And I understand all of that.  But show me the free agent signings, within some rational budget, that take us from a losing record all the way to a division title, in these years where the Astros and A’s are regularly winning 97 games.  Because it isn’t like signing one bad guy was the problem.  The problem is all the guys we had to sign year in and year out because the minor leagues couldn’t provide us with even replacement level talent.  

[Stradling]

Just now, ThisismineScios said:

Which also prevents us from having the prospect capital to trade for guys who suddenly become available or team fire sales. 

Yep

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

But show me the free agent signings, within some rational budget, that take us from a losing record all the way to a division title, in these years where the Astros and A’s are regularly winning 97 games. 

No.

That's not my job. 

[stormngt]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have some great news for you.  We have only struggled for the last five years.  The five year period before that we had four winning records, including a 98 win season, one losing record and averaged 87 wins a season.  Now I know that seems like I am just being argumentative, but it is also the reality.  It shows why they didn’t burn it to the ground, which again would have been pretty much impossible because they didn’t have much to trade and seldom were the tradeable assets healthy enough to trade.  It always felt like they were health away from going to the playoffs.  

You so the better than this. You are trying so hard to win the argument that you change the premise of my argument.  I will say it one last time and maybe you will finally understand.  

I have argued that a big market team with the best player in baseball should make the playoffs more than once in a decade.

You have been arguing against my premise. 

Let's look at the facts.

How many playoff appearances has the Angeks had since 2010?

1

That is one playoff in a decade! 

The fuck ups 5-10 years ago has severely hurt us over the last 5 years.  However that is within a decade.

So please stop arguing with me about how we have "tried our best the last 5 years".

My parameters of my argument is decade and playoff appearances  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

You so the better than this. You are trying so hard to win the argument that you change the premise of my argument.  I will say it one last time and maybe you will finally understand.  

I have argued that a big market team with the best player in baseball should make the playoffs more than once in a decade.

You have been arguing against my premise. 

Let's look at the facts.

How many playoff appearances has the Angeks had since 2010?

1

That is one playoff in a decade! 

The fuck ups 5-10 years ago has severely hurt us over the last 5 years.  However that is within a decade.

So please stop arguing with me about how we have "tried our best the last 5 years".

My parameters of my argument is decade and playoff appearances  

Ok.  I guess I will leave you to your ignorance.  A large market team with the best player should be in the playoffs more than once in 10 years and if they aren’t then they didn’t try hard enough.  That is incredibly dumb, but I’ll leave you to it.  You win.

[ten ocho recon scout]

18 minutes ago, T.G. said:

guys like Jim Johnson and Andrew Bailey who ended their careers in Anaheim on sour notes.  Cody Allen and his $8.5 million contract was a bust.  We all know how horrible Cahill and Harvey were... but let's not forget - Ricky Nolasco, Hector Santiago, Jhoulys Chacin, Dillon Peters, Chris Stratton and on and on...

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

My god the last few years have been bad

[Wisconsin27]

6 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But we havent... and I dont see one being available anytime soon. This is why i say, as much as it sucks, punt the trout prime and try and make the next era really solid.

To follow up, you make some great points and I get it.

My only request is that if this is our plan, please free him for his sake and the rest of baseball to enjoy.

 

[arch stanton]

What’s stopping anyone from enjoying him?

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

To follow up, you make some great points and I get it.

My only request is that if this is our plan, please free him for his sake and the rest of baseball to enjoy.

 

This is such a Facebook fan shitty take.  Sorry. 

[Hubs]

10 hours ago, T.G. said:

That's not entirely true.  It's a factor, but Billy Eppler also signed or acquired horrible pitchers year after year...  not just starters either... guys like Jim Johnson and Andrew Bailey who ended their careers in Anaheim on sour notes.  Cody Allen and his $8.5 million contract was a bust.  We all know how horrible Cahill and Harvey were... but let's not forget - Ricky Nolasco, Hector Santiago, Jhoulys Chacin, Dillon Peters, Chris Stratton and on and on...

 

Hector Santiago were both acquired under DiPoto. He had two years in the rotation with ERA’s under 4 then Eppler shopped him for Nolasco and Meyer.

Chacin Was average and Peters was brought in as a minor league deal.

That’s not great, obviously but it’s not terrible.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Hector Santiago were both acquired under DiPoto. He had two years in the rotation with ERA’s under 4 then Eppler shopped him for Nolasco and Meyer.

Chacin Was average and Peters was brought in as a minor league deal.

That’s not great, obviously but it’s not terrible.

I liked Santiago. The problem with him was, one day you would get Good Hector and the next time it might be Bad Hector.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, arch stanton said:

What’s stopping anyone from enjoying him?

"Laws, and no means no" - tdawg

[Wisconsin27]

4 hours ago, arch stanton said:

What’s stopping anyone from enjoying him?

By definition, absolutely nothing.  In reality, for the average baseball fan in America, playing on the west coast (time zone) for a sub-.500 team that does not go the playoffs results in fewer prime time games, including the joys of October.  I live in Wisconsin and can tell you there are many teams broadcast here more than the Angels in large part because east coast and winning teams are network priorities.

Strad, I don't own a FB account, so I'm unsure where I came up with the crazy idea that the best player of our generation should not have to wait more than 10 years between playoff appearances if the organization makes a concerted effort to begin a rebuild on this 31st birthday.  

 

[arch stanton]

4 minutes ago, Wisconsin27 said:

By definition, absolutely nothing.  In reality, for the average baseball fan in America, playing on the west coast (time zone) for a sub-.500 team that does not go the playoffs results in fewer prime time games, including the joys of October.  I live in Wisconsin and can tell you there are many teams broadcast here more than the Angels in large part because east coast and winning teams are network priorities.

Strad, I don't own a FB account, so I'm unsure where I came up with the crazy idea that the best player of our generation should not have to wait more than 10 years between playoff appearances if the organization makes a concerted effort to begin a rebuild on this 31st birthday.  

 

I live in a time zone that’s GMT+3 and I watch 70+ Angels games a year. Anyone who can’t find a way to watch is just being a whiny c*nt

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok.  I guess I will leave you to your ignorance.  A large market team with the best player should be in the playoffs more than once in 10 years and if they aren’t then they didn’t try hard enough.  That is incredibly dumb, but I’ll leave you to it.  You win.

Ignorance you are the one csnt understand I was talking about a ten year period and not 5 year period.   And you are so arrogant to notice I never claimed the Angel's are not trying.  You are putting in words that don't exist. 

The Angels failures is not bad luck isnt from A LACK OF EFFORT IT IS FROM INCOMPETENCE !

I have no idea why you are trying to win this debate.  It's kind of stupid that you have to change my words so it goes into a narrative that you can win.  

[Torridd]

20 hours ago, mmc said:

While I like a lot of the moves made this offseason, it really bothers me that we have the best player of this generation, and going into his 10th season, we have yet to win a playoff game with him and the consensus generally seems to be that we have a shot at winning the AL West in the weakened field, but it is still unlikely and basically involves a lot of luck going our way, vs being something we can actually have any confidence in.  It just feels like the last several offseasons have had the team entering each season with much more questions than answers, and a much high chance of us missing the playoffs rather than making it.  It's just absolutely disheartening to me that we seem unable to get out of this purgatory with the talent and financial resources we have.  I guess I'm just wondering when you guys think we will be able to get out of this funk and what it will take, because for me, I'm starting to lose any amount of faith we'll realistically be able to turn this thing around any time soon without going through a rebuild.  There is no reason any big market team with the league's best player shouldn't be a playoff lock, and yet here we are 9/10 seasons into his career...

I don't think this can be answered. If someone told me in 2014 that we would wait over 6 years to get back to the playoffs, I  would've said he/she were crazy. Either Arte will put up the necessary money, we'll eventually get lucky, or some of our young kids (say pitchers) will take the next step. I've never been bothered that Trout isn't getting in the playoffs but that the Angels aren't.

[tdawg87]

Our fanbase is literally stupid as fuck.

[Torridd]

20 hours ago, T.G. said:

At the end of the day, the failures fall at the feet of Arte.  I have no doubt he wants to win.  I have no doubt he's willing to spend money.  I just believe he's made horrible decisions in his pursuit of the postseason. 

Ultimately, I think he feels hamstrung. I agree that he wants to win, but he doesn't want to jump off a cliff doing it. He tried with the Hamilton- Pujols- Wilson acquisition and it hurt his heart as well as his wallet. So now he's obvously waiting to get Pujols money to start anew. I didn't want to believe that before, but that's the only thing that makes sense.

[failos]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Our fanbase is literally stupid as fuck.

Not so different from the FO

[Wisconsin27]

2 hours ago, arch stanton said:

I live in a time zone that’s GMT+3 and I watch 70+ Angels games a year. Anyone who can’t find a way to watch is just being a whiny c*nt

Wow, I hope you can find a little bit of class, Arch.  I wasn't sharing anything personal with you, just sharing an opinion on a forum.

I suspect you watch 70+ Angel games a year because you are an Angel fan.  I don't watch quite that many, but close.  You would need to read and comprehend the thread to understand your comment has nothing to do with my point, but I'd prefer you just let it go.  

[Angel Oracle]

22 hours ago, T.G. said:

Obviously, that's easier said than done. 

Yes, the Angels have screwed up repeatedly. 

Again... I feel the frustration as much as anyone. 

Starting with that abomination of a 2010 draft

[Angelsjunky]

On 2/17/2021 at 7:50 PM, jsnpritchett said:

Right, when I mentioned his power, I wasn't solely talking about HR.  His doubles were down (on a pro-rated basis) and he had his lowest slg % in 4 years (and his lowest overall BA).  Again, not freaking out over him or anything just yet.  Just something to keep an eye on this year.

Sure, but it also could be on account of small sample size.

A weird anomaly: In 2020 he hit all 9 HR at home, none on the road.

Anyhow, I don't expect a return to his .598 SLG of 2019. And while he had his lowest SLG since 2016, it was still higher than his career SLG. He might simply be more of a .290/.420/.500 hitter going forward, which is just fine by me.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Angelsjunky