Question: What is Minasian doing?

[Angelsjunky]

As an aside, and partially supportive of one of your points @Second Base, while I like and use baseballtradesvalues.com, I think it gets particularly wobbly with non-elite prospects. For instance, they have Adell, Marsh, and Adams as 49.5, 37.5, and 15.9, respectively. I do not think that Adams has 40% of the trade value of Marsh and only 30% of Adell, but the simulator seems to use rankings and doesn't take into account scouting or perceived upside.  You can really see this with someone like Chris Rodriguez having only 8.5 value.

Other than that, though, I think it is a good tool and a great starting point and trade evaluator.

[Second Base]

25 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

$9.5 million ain't pennies. That's more than Eppler paid for any reliever, I believe.

9.1 million, and the Reds kicked down 1.5 million making the total to 7.6 million. Noe Ramirez made 900k last year and is included in the deal, knocking the relative cost for Raisel to approximately 6.7 million. 

Now compare his salary to someone like Brad Hand, who got a 1 million dollar buyout plus 10.5 million in free agency, and you can see the relative cost for Raisel Iglesias was probably half of what he would've gotten on the open market in 2021. Not to mention he likely would've netted a multi-year deal at that rate. 

The Angels definitely appear to have come out on top in the Iglesias trade. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Second Base

[greginpsca]

Someone posted in one of the threads that Perry must read AW and do the exact opposite. This offseason might validate that. The only player acquired this offseason that anyone on AW had on their radar was Suzuki.  Free agent signings, waiver claims, minor league signings, Rule 5 pick. The only guy on anyones radar was Suzuki.  Hopefully, next offseason we all do better.

[floplag]

41 minutes ago, eligrba said:

In my opinion, domestic violence is a much more egregious act than sexual harassment.  Engaging in unjustifiable physically violent acts crosses a line that should never be considered the same as sexual harassment.

One is serial though, apparently.  Otherwise i wholly agree actually.
bottom line both are horrendous, yes?

[Second Base]

Some people....

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

One is serial though, apparently.  Otherwise i wholly agree actually.
bottom line both are horrendous, yes?

Agree.

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Some people....

Other people:

[eligrba]

26 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I love it when cretinous, dumb, motherfucking assholes are more concerned about a potential perpetrator than the victims.  Shut the fuck up.  Honestly, I don't give a shit what any of you think of me personally.  But it sickens me to see such backwards attitudes on here. 

Save yourself.  For some, until they see the effects of sexual harassment on someone they care about or respect, empathy is non-exist.

[Lou]

I'm sure this is the first time Puig has ever laid a hand on a woman. 

[ThisismineScios]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Maria Torres says the Angels weren't in on Bauer two months after I said the Angels weren't in on Bauer. Does that make me connected? No, it makes me a random fan on a baseball message board that felt the Angels had more holes to plug than a 30-40 million dollar pitcher. 

Look at the details of the Darvish trade. Chicago included money going back to SD and a good catcher. The Padres (my other favorite team) provided a back end starter and 4 prospects, only one of which has a future as one of considerable hype, Owen Caissie. 

There's this really cool site that isn't 100% accurate, but is there best trade evaluator available to fans right now. It's called baseball tradevalues.com. 

Look up the Darvish trade. Look up the value of the Angels prospects, and then get back to me on what you see.

Again, let me reiterate, this isn't 100% accurate, is just the best we have. Then also consider a trade that involved either Adell or Marsh and just how valuable both those prospects are. 

Maria Torres doesn't know jack-squat about prospects.

 

 

The site is great and fun. Unfortunately, executives do not use that site. I've used it quite a bit but a lot of the deals that we see don't seem to line up with that. Every team evaluates prospects differently. The Angels could have put something together for Musgrove too, but didn't. 

I am sure the Angels COULD have made the Darvish trade if they really wanted to. They clearly didn't for what the Cubs wanted. I wish I knew why. 

[Pancake Bear]

Minasian clearly isn't concerned about making a splash. Especially after the #BauertoAnaheim thing. He could've gotten the fanbase behind him early, but went a different route. The guys he's brought in have been questionable, to say the least. With all that, if this season goes poorly, he's going to have a rough tenure with the Angels unless he finds some way to turn it around.

On the other hand, if we make the playoffs and the guys he brought in do well? No one will remember the disappointments of this offseason. 

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

The site is great and fun. Unfortunately, executives do not use that site. I've used it quite a bit but a lot of the deals that we see don't seem to line up with that. Every team evaluates prospects differently. The Angels could have put something together for Musgrove too, but didn't. 

I am sure the Angels COULD have made the Darvish trade if they really wanted to. They clearly didn't for what the Cubs wanted. I wish I knew why. 

And that was the point I think I was trying to get at, is that the Angels could've made that deal because they have the prospects. To say that the Angels don't have three prospects to pull off such a trade as Maria Torres claims, reeks of 2016 when the Angels had a terrible farm system. 

As for Musgrove, that was a HUGE price to pay for San Diego. They could afford it because they have such a deep, elite farm system. But my goodness, that would've destroyed the Angels farm. 

[Second Base]

Anyone here know John B Crist? The dude is hilarious. 

[T.G.]

22 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

Someone posted in one of the threads that Perry must read AW and do the exact opposite. This offseason might validate that. The only player acquired this offseason that anyone on AW had on their radar was Suzuki.  Free agent signings, waiver claims, minor league signings, Rule 5 pick. The only guy on anyones radar was Suzuki.  Hopefully, next offseason we all do better.

Or we are all just clueless dumbasses.

[ThisismineScios]

2 minutes ago, Second Base said:

And that was the point I think I was trying to get at, is that the Angels could've made that deal because they have the prospects. To say that the Angels don't have three prospects to pull off such a trade as Maria Torres claims, reeks of 2016 when the Angels had a terrible farm system. 

As for Musgrove, that was a HUGE price to pay for San Diego. They could afford it because they have such a deep, elite farm system. But my goodness, that would've destroyed the Angels farm. 

I get what you're saying. Her quote definitely didn't have any nuance whatsoever. They Angels could have made trades for Darvish and Taillon. They couldn't have matched the Snell or Musgrove trades. In addition, I don't think they can trade for Marquez or Castillo without giving up nearly everything. 

[failos]

He’s doing jack shit. At this point I’d rather have Eppler as GM.

[Duren, Duren]

Obviously Minasian is using 2021 as an experimental model. Throw in a bunch of one year question marks and see who, if anyone,  has longer term value. Meantime, letting the farm system develop future replacements.

Still haven't replaced what Calhoun brought in right field. Power, defense, leadership. Adell and/or Marsh really need to progress or right field will remain a longer term problem.

2021 seems set up for lowered expectations. But I guess a new gm has to think future more than present on this type of team. 

With some good luck, better than expected play by some of those question mark acquisitions and great years from Trout and Rendon the team may still nibble around the edge of playoff contention. 

But 2022 will be a real gamble.

[Jason]

53 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

Obviously Minasian is using 2021 as an experimental model. Throw in a bunch of one year question marks and see who, if anyone,  has longer term value. Meantime, letting the farm system develop future replacements.

Still haven't replaced what Calhoun brought in right field. Power, defense, leadership. Adell and/or Marsh really need to progress or right field will remain a longer term problem.

2021 seems set up for lowered expectations. But I guess a new gm has to think future more than present on this type of team. 

With some good luck, better than expected play by some of those question mark acquisitions and great years from Trout and Rendon the team may still nibble around the edge of playoff contention. 

But 2022 will be a real gamble.

I thinking planning for the future is the right approach as there are too many pieces that are needed to be a serious contender but in the meantime us fans will get treated to another mediocre season 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Pancake Bear said:

Minasian clearly isn't concerned about making a splash. Especially after the #BauertoAnaheim thing. He could've gotten the fanbase behind him early, but went a different route. The guys he's brought in have been questionable, to say the least. With all that, if this season goes poorly, he's going to have a rough tenure with the Angels unless he finds some way to turn it around.

On the other hand, if we make the playoffs and the guys he brought in do well? No one will remember the disappointments of this offseason. 

In all seriousness, how improved do you think the club is from last season? I do not see them as finishing above .500 in 2021. 

[stormngt]

7 hours ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

Here’s what I think is going on. The Angels are going to punt this season. They are only signing people to one year deals with the hope of having a fire sale mid year. Minasian wants to rebuild from the ground up and wants to stock the farm. If they graduate Detmers, Rodriguez, and Adell this year the farm is going to look pretty barren. 
 

I’m not necessarily against this plan if it means competing in 2022 but I hope it doesn’t continue next offseason. 
 

 

So just give the middle finger to Trout and Rendon?

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

In all seriousness, how improved do you think the club is from last season? I do not see them as finishing above .500 in 2021. 

First, I dispute your premise: I don't think they were a below .500 team last season over 162 games. They started poorly and never caught back up. Small sample size skewed their record. Obviously can't know for sure, but they were trending up near the end. They had sorted out the bad apples that were dragging them down and were starting to fire up a bit. That's not to say they were a great team last year or would necessarily have made the playoffs, but I believe in 162 they were an above .500 team last year. 

Second, I do think they were improved this offseason. RF, closer, SP5, and SS were all a problem last season. Iglesias stabilizes SS which also improves 2B. The others really couldn't be worse than last year. My expectation is RF is about the same as last year, maybe slightly better. I think the rotation noticeably improves. Closer should also be better, which will help the pen (still have a hunch they may be adding another good arm in the pen). 

The guys no longer here were largely ones who needed to go (<cough> Teheran). Difficulty is projecting who will do better or worse of those still here. E.g. Walsh almost certainly can't duplicate his late 2020, but it isn't impossible to believe he could be a solid 1B for a season. We'll need to wait and see. Ditto Stassi at the plate. Upton started off as crap and finished much better. Ohtani? Who knows. Can't be worse, though. Bundy? Again, difficult to be sure.

tl;dr I think we were most likely a 84-85 win team if we played 162 last year. I think we might be upper 80's this season, which in this division might put us in the playoff conversation. A deadline move could put us over the top. 

 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Taylor said:

His SAR (smile above replacement) is off the charts.

He always has gum, and doesnt get upset when you ask him for some.

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

He always has gum, and doesnt get upset when you ask him for some.

I used to have a friend like that. 

He was a cool cat. 

[Second Base]

46 minutes ago, Jason said:

In all seriousness, how improved do you think the club is from last season? I do not see them as finishing above .500 in 2021. 

I think that if 2020 was played as a 162 game season, the Angels likely would've finished between 80-85 wins. The team got better as the season progressed. 

I think seeing a full year of Walsh and Barria, a return to health and form for Ohtani, and the addition of Quintana, Cobb, both Iglesias', and now Fowler, likely improves this team by 5-10 wins in 2021, making them an 85-95 win team. 

By my own estimation, the Angels as currently constructed look like an 87 win team to me. Likely not a playoff team, but not far off, and with big time prospects like Adell, Marsh, Detmers and Rodriguez taking over in 2022, they're likely going to cement themselves as a 90+ win team in years 2022-2027. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

This is Maddon’s team.

Saving money for Baez next offseason 

Still don’t like Baez’ career OPS (.309), although the other numbers and defense are good to real good.

Anyway, the team was 17-12 to close the season.   If playing 162 games, they would have likely won at least 80 games.

I could see a 7 wins improvement on that over 162 games in 2021.   The AL West is not as good as a year ago.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Angel Oracle