The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[totdprods]

21 hours ago, Second Base said:

I've watched that video enough times now to notice how frustrated hitters are when they missed his fastball. His off-speed pitchers were so effective that they're looking for them, and keying on them, particularly with two strikes, which isn't out of the ordinary. 

And when the curve does come, they couldn't hit it anyway. 

Too good in AA and AAA to require developmental time there. I don't think the results at the major league level were very reflective of his abilities as he was thrown into the deep end against contenders before COVID. 

My feelings wouldn't be hurt if he was the 6th starter. 

The only reason I don't want him getting MLB innings early in the year is because there are too many better options ahead of him.

Edited December 23, 2021 by totdprods

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

The only reason I don't want him getting MLB innings early in the year is because there are too many better options ahead of him.

Maybe. We'll see where they all are at after Spring Training. 

[wopphil]

Detmers is homerun prone. He was in the minors, and he was in Anaheim. Unless he gets that under control, he will never be more than a number 4. 

[bruin5]

I wonder if Dietmers should be in Double A rather than at Salt Lake City.  He needs to continue work on pitch placement, especially his curve. 

I’ve heard about issues in SLC regarding the thin air affecting breaking pitches. Maybe it’s not that big a deal, I just don’t know.  

[Docwaukee]

12 hours ago, wopphil said:

Detmers is homerun prone. He was in the minors, and he was in Anaheim. Unless he gets that under control, he will never be more than a number 4. 

this really isn't true.  Most of the top pitchers end up near the top in hrs allowed.  Robbie Ray was 5th in hr/9 for those qualified.  And detmers hr tendencies in the minors was because he threw a ton of strikes.  In the majors it was because he didn't.  Of course not giving up hrs at a decently high right will help him be a better pitcher but he can still be a strong #2 even if he does allow more than avg.  

being hr prone is a symptom.  not the disease.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

this really isn't true.  Most of the top pitchers end up near the top in hrs allowed.  Robbie Ray was 5th in hr/9 for those qualified.  And detmers hr tendencies in the minors was because he threw a ton of strikes.  In the majors it was because he didn't.  Of course not giving up hrs at a decently high right will help him be a better pitcher but he can still be a strong #2 even if he does allow more than avg.  

being hr prone is a symptom.  not the disease.  

There is also the reality that after all of what, 83 professional innings it's far too early to safely make any determinations what Detmers is or isn't.

[wopphil]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

this really isn't true.  Most of the top pitchers end up near the top in hrs allowed.  Robbie Ray was 5th in hr/9 for those qualified.  And detmers hr tendencies in the minors was because he threw a ton of strikes.  In the majors it was because he didn't.  Of course not giving up hrs at a decently high right will help him be a better pitcher but he can still be a strong #2 even if he does allow more than avg.  

being hr prone is a symptom.  not the disease.  

He gave up 15 home runs in 82 innings. How is that not homerun prone? Hopefully he gets it under control, but you can’t give a homerun every 5.5 innings and expect to be successful. 

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, wopphil said:

He gave up 15 home runs in 82 innings. How is that not homerun prone? Hopefully he gets it under control, but you can’t give a homerun every 5.5 innings and expect to be successful. 

I don't think he was disagreeing that he's "homerun prone", just that it doesn't mean he isn't going to be anything better than a #4. 

Btw he's 22 and has pitched 82 total professional innings. I think we should relax a bit here. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think he was disagreeing that he's "homerun prone", just that it doesn't mean he isn't going to be anything better than a #4. 

Btw he's 22 and has pitched 82 total professional innings. I think we should relax a bit here. 

you don't have to defend my position just because someone else doesn't understand.  go ahead and let him think that this is who Detmers is and who who'll always be.  At age 21.  In 80 or so pro innings.   Oh if he keeps giving up 1.6hrs per 9 innings he's gonna suck.  Yah.  No shit.  

[tdawg87]

31 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you don't have to defend my position just because someone else doesn't understand.  go ahead and let him think that this is who Detmers is and who who'll always be.  At age 21.  In 80 or so pro innings.   Oh if he keeps giving up 1.6hrs per 9 innings he's gonna suck.  Yah.  No shit.  

Doc hates Christmas.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Doc hates Christmas.

I hate traveling 2000 miles and then watching my family get covid.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

I hate traveling 2000 miles and then watching my family get covid.  

Terrible dude.  Wishing you guys a speedy recovery.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Terrible dude.  Wishing you guys a speedy recovery.

thanks bro.  we've made the best of it as we always do, but this is two years in a row now.  fucking rona.  I'm about ready to say f it and run naked through the streets.  WE'RE GOING STREAKIN'!!!!

[tdawg87]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I hate traveling 2000 miles and then watching my family get covid.  

Sorry to hear that, doc.

[Blarg]

11 hours ago, Dochalo said:

WE'RE GOING STREAKIN'!!!!

 

5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Sorry to hear that, doc.

 

[wopphil]

18 hours ago, Dochalo said:

  go ahead and let him think that this is who Detmers is and who who'll always be. 

You should go back and re-read what I said, rather than make an illogical conclusion based on your own assumptions.  My point was simple - Detmers gave up way too many home runs. Nobody should reasonably disagree with that. Of course he may improve on this, and hopefully will. But some guys never correct certain weaknesses, and Detmers’ bad homerun tendencies thus far - albeit in limited innings - is at least slightly concerning. 

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, wopphil said:

You should go back and re-read what I said, rather than make an illogical conclusion based on your own assumptions.  My point was simple - Detmers gave up way too many home runs. Nobody should reasonably disagree with that. Of course he may improve on this, and hopefully will. But some guys never correct certain weaknesses, and Detmers’ bad homerun tendencies thus far - albeit in limited innings - is at least slightly concerning. 

I'm gonna defend Doc's position again and say I don't think it's even remotely concerning right now.

Obviously if he continues that path he won't be successful, you are 100% right about that. But 21 year old pitchers tend to have some things to work on, especially when they have 80 professional innings to their name. 

I'm not worried at all about him. Wake me up in 2024 if this is still an issue.

[wopphil]

16 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm gonna defend Doc's position again and say I don't think it's even remotely concerning right now.

Obviously if he continues that path he won't be successful, you are 100% right about that. But 21 year old pitchers tend to have some things to work on, especially when they have 80 professional innings to their name. 

I'm not worried at all about him. Wake me up in 2024 if this is still an issue.

I don’t disagree with any of this, though I suspect homerun tendencies are a bit like control/command: hard to improve (at least significantly so). 

[Inside Pitch]

54 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm gonna defend Doc's position again and say I don't think it's even remotely concerning right now.

Obviously if he continues that path he won't be successful, you are 100% right about that. But 21 year old pitchers tend to have some things to work on, especially when they have 80 professional innings to their name. 

I'm not worried at all about him. Wake me up in 2024 if this is still an issue.

Park indexes matter.  Angel Stadium had the 5th highest HR index in MLB last year, the park in AA was a launching pad too, it was in the top 10 in all of minor league baseball the first half of the minor league season.  Haven't checked to see where it ended up, but again..  60 innings in AA is a pretty meaningless sample.

[Angelsjunky]

17 hours ago, Dochalo said:

thanks bro.  we've made the best of it as we always do, but this is two years in a row now.  fucking rona.  I'm about ready to say f it and run naked through the streets.  WE'RE GOING STREAKIN'!!!!

I did that once with some friends. But we were in our 20s. 

[Angelsjunky]

Some numbers. Detmers gave up 2.18 HR/9 IP in the majors, which is very high - but was in 20.2 innings, so is the definition of small sample size. But if he continued that over 100 innings--it would have been second worst in baseball, with only Mike Foltynewicz (2.27) being worse. But again, small sample size.

He gave up 10 HR in 62 minor league innings, which is a 1.45 rate. For comparison, the major league rate is 1.26, so it is a bit higher than average, but not enormously so.

And as someone pointed out, Robbie Ray actually had a higher rate (1.54). But he's the only pitcher in the top 40 in WAR of pitchers with 100+ innings with a rate higher than Detmers' minor league rate. The next guy is Yu Darvish (1.52), 44th in WAR. But it is also worth noting that Ray's career rate is 1.36, though for whatever reason he has been higher than that over the last three seasons.

Of 129 pitchers with 100+ innings pitched in 2021, Ryan Yarbrough and Zach Plesac were 87th and 88th with a 1.45 rate. 

Interesting tidbit: the Angels pitcher with the most similar HR rate to Detmers' minor league rate, is Ramon Ortiz with a career 1.46 rate.

Conclusion: Detmers does have a high HR rate, even if you only look at his minor league numbers. But, we're talking about a very small sample size in his first professional year. Obviously it bears watching as he is unlikely to be better than a solid back-end starter (ala Ramon Ortiz, who was pretty much the definition of a #5) with that sort of rate, but we shouldn't be too concerned. Yet. If he has a similar rate in 2022, I think we should be quite concerned.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, wopphil said:

You should go back and re-read what I said, rather than make an illogical conclusion based on your own assumptions.  My point was simple - Detmers gave up way too many home runs. Nobody should reasonably disagree with that. Of course he may improve on this, and hopefully will. But some guys never correct certain weaknesses, and Detmers’ bad homerun tendencies thus far - albeit in limited innings - is at least slightly concerning. 

I started with the same view as Doc/IP/tdawg, but after looking at the numbers, came more around to this position. I think "slight concern" is reasonable. Just not "major concern."

[tdawg87]

I think I'll leave this one to IP. 

I will say this: I really don't see any need for concern over 80 innings from a 21 year old, especially when he dominated through the vast majority of those innings despite the HR rate. 

Doc put it pretty simply: He gave up a lot of homeruns in the minors because he threw too many strikes. He gave up a lot in the majors because he didn't.

[eligrba]

On 12/24/2021 at 6:43 PM, wopphil said:

He gave up 15 home runs in 82 innings. How is that not homerun prone? Hopefully he gets it under control, but you can’t give a homerun every 5.5 innings and expect to be successful. 

With all of the technology and information readily available for hitters in today's game, it is virtually impossible not to home run prone, especially as a young pitcher.  I would be more interested on whether he gave up solo home runs or 3 run home runs.  Three run home runs are killers, solo home runs are meh. There are more excellent hitters in today's game focused exclusively on hitting home runs making the home runs allowed stat skewed to reflect hitter tendencies rather than pitcher problems.

[eligrba]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:08 PM, Dochalo said:

I hate traveling 2000 miles and then watching my family get covid.  

Hope everyone comes out of it unscathed.