Unofficial Save The Farm Thread

[Revad]

I guess the mood on Angels Win is win now I’m sick of losing plus Trout needs to make the playoffst.  From Arte’s perspective, pack the stands (ha ha) or win for playoff money.  Not sure I agree.  There are going to be trades, but for sustained success the farm needs one more year.  The Angels need to at least get prospects that play for minimum out of the Eppler era.  I’d love to see the Angels with five Top 100 guys.  Sign a steady #3 SP to at least 2 plus an option and then sign a high risk high reward guy.  Don’t lose a draft pick.  Don’t trade Fletcher.  See what’s there with Ward and Walsh.
 

I’d really like to know what Arte and Minasian agreed to as the path forward.  I sure hope it’s “Get us to the playoffs while continuing to build the farm” as opposed to “Win the World Series in two years.”   The front office hirings are excellent and cause for optimism but I hope they hold on to the prospects.
 

Any response appreciated, especially from Bill Stoneman.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Revad

[tdawg87]

I'm pretty sure winning and building the farm is always the motive. 

But it seems you're saying we shouldn't spend OR trade prospects and I don't see that as being realistic. 

I understand your point of view and it's not a bad one, but the number of prospects we have in the top 100 isn't something I think we should be aiming for as a legitimate "plan". We want guys we can turn into good players, and just because someone is rated in some "ultimate" prospect list doesn't mean they'll be a good player.

[Revad]

I’d rather spend this year and let the farm develop. The number of prospects in the top 100 is a reflection of the farm.  But it’s such a unique circumstance I’m not sure what I’m saying.  COVID and collective bargaining.  But let’s don’t waste Eppler’s work is all, I would spread the FA dollars around, sign a solid SP (if there is such a thing) and go for Richards or Walker.  I’m not saying Bauer wouldn’t be worth it- he’s more than a SP he’s also a smart guy that could help other pitchers.  I won’t bitch if Bauer signs with the Angels but it needs to be soon.  How long do you wait?  End of January?  Trade Adell if needed to get someone better than Bundy but don’t trade the young pitching.  If Artie would raise the budget a bit we could do very well this year just signing free agents and making one trade.  But taking on a bad contract to get Gray and including Adell plus a good pitching prospect, that doesn’t work for me.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

I’d rather spend this year and let the farm develop. The number of prospects in the top 100 is a reflection of the farm.  But it’s such a unique circumstance I’m not sure what I’m saying.  COVID and collective bargaining.  But let’s don’t waste Eppler’s work is all, I would spread the FA dollars around, sign a solid SP (if there is such a thing) and go for Richards or Walker.  I’m not saying Bauer wouldn’t be worth it- he’s more than a SP he’s also a smart guy that could help other pitchers.  I won’t bitch if Bauer signs with the Angels but it needs to be soon.  How long do you wait?  End of January?  Trade Adell if needed to get someone better than Bundy but don’t trade the young pitching.  If Artie would raise the budget a bit we could do very well this year just signing free agents and making one trade.  But taking on a bad contract to get Gray and including Adell plus a good pitching prospect, that doesn’t work for me.

I really like Walker and Richards and wouldn't mind signing both. Bauer and teams with top pitchers for trade  will hold team hostage knowing how bad Angels need pitching. Can always add pitching during season with trades. Richards and Walker numbers in short season were great, Richards just 1 bad outing. Throw in return of Ohtani rotation will be fine with money left over for catcher and RF plus farm will be left alone for now.

[Angels 1961]

Even Happ on 1 year deal

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I really like Walker and Richards and wouldn't mind signing both. Bauer and teams with top pitchers for trade  will hold team hostage knowing how bad Angels need pitching. Can always add pitching during season with trades. Richards and Walker numbers in short season were great, Richards just 1 bad outing. Throw in return of Ohtani rotation will be fine with money left over for catcher and RF plus farm will be left alone for now.

I disagree with the notion that another team will hold a team hostage because of a weak staff or whatever. A team trading a starting pitcher is simply looking for as much value as possible, and they are looking for the best deal possible. If the Angels provide that then they get the player.  If they don’t then they don’t. 

[tdawg87]

36 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I really like Walker and Richards and wouldn't mind signing both. Bauer and teams with top pitchers for trade  will hold team hostage knowing how bad Angels need pitching. Can always add pitching during season with trades. Richards and Walker numbers in short season were great, Richards just 1 bad outing. Throw in return of Ohtani rotation will be fine with money left over for catcher and RF plus farm will be left alone for now.

Awesome. 2 pitchers who absolutely cannot stay healthy. Sounds like a plan. 

[eligrba]

I think having Minasian and his hires evaluate the farm is the best course of action the Angels can take for future success.  I like that they are not invested to the farm because it allows for a more authentic evaluation of players.  I am actually fine with Minasian reorganizing and rebuilding the farm through trades, international signings and draft picks.  I am guessing there are more chances for successes in finding undervalued minor league players than in finding undervalued major league players.

[floplag]

They have for a long time now shown no interest in gutting the farm, or really stocking it still playing middle of the pack and trying to win which in todays game is near a death sentence at times with many outright tanking and selling off whatever talent they had to get better prospects.

That having been said how much help do you see coming from this farm?  Our ranking tanked again last season starting in the bottom 5 and the most recent one saying bottom 10 although obviously not a typical season so who knows the accuracy of it all. 

Correct me if im wrong but most of our better guys are still a couple years away at best.

So yeah, how long are some of you willing to throw away at this point?  I know im going to get blasted for this one but if there was ever a team, with a certain player, that needed to take on a bit of a win now mentality, its us.  Do you really want to go down in history as the team that wasted Trout?

Normally you would all be absolutely right, this isnt normal.  It would be worth being a bit bleak for a couple years to get him his due for believing in this franchise in my opinion.   i know im going to get blasted for this one, but its how i feel.  For the right people, the right help, to get this team into the post and maybe a WS, literally no one should be off limits. 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

They have for a long time now shown no interest in gutting the farm, or really stocking it still playing middle of the pack and trying to win which in todays game is near a death sentence at times with many outright tanking and selling off whatever talent they had to get better prospects.

That having been said how much help do you see coming from this farm?  Our ranking tanked again last season starting in the bottom 5 and the most recent one saying bottom 10 although obviously not a typical season so who knows the accuracy of it all. 

Correct me if im wrong but most of our better guys are still a couple years away at best.

So yeah, how long are some of you willing to throw away at this point?  I know im going to get blasted for this one but if there was ever a team, with a certain player, that needed to take on a bit of a win now mentality, its us.  Do you really want to go down in history as the team that wasted Trout?

Normally you would all be absolutely right, this isnt normal.  It would be worth being a bit bleak for a couple years to get him his due for believing in this franchise in my opinion.   i know im going to get blasted for this one, but its how i feel.  For the right people, the right help, to get this team into the post and maybe a WS, literally no one should be off limits. 

No I pretty much agree with all of this. 

We're circling the drain and it's fucking stupid and I'm tired of watching it.

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

That having been said how much help do you see coming from this farm?

Not much.  People are overly optimistic to believe Adell is only a year away.  

[Stradling]

Hey @floplag do you think you’re going to get blasted?  

[Angels 1961]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I disagree with the notion that another team will hold a team hostage because of a weak staff or whatever. A team trading a starting pitcher is simply looking for as much value as possible, and they are looking for the best deal possible. If the Angels provide that then they get the player.  If they don’t then they don’t. 

Team could ask little more from Angels and they would. Same with bidding on free agents

[Angels 1961]

15 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Awesome. 2 pitchers who absolutely cannot stay healthy. Sounds like a plan. 

Actually 3, I was counting on Ohtani comeback.

[Stradling]

It’s risk versus reward.  Do you trade 6 years of cost controlled upside for a chance at getting a player that may or may not get you over the hump, for a player that may or may not regress, and for a player that cost a lot of money and could prevent you from spending other money.  I have zero issue trading prospects.   I’d just prefer not to send a bunch of them for a pitcher over the age of 30. 

[floplag]

47 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s risk versus reward.  Do you trade 6 years of cost controlled upside for a chance at getting a player that may or may not get you over the hump, for a player that may or may not regress, and for a player that cost a lot of money and could prevent you from spending other money.  I have zero issue trading prospects.   I’d just prefer not to send a bunch of them for a pitcher over the age of 30. 

There is no player that will guarantee put us over the top.  You make a trade to give you the best chance, its all anyone can do.
Im not suggesting blowing up the farm, if the deals are bad you dont make them... but for the right guy, you do it, thats all im saying.

It comes down to this, do you pay the price for a Musgrove or Snell, or take a shot at Paxton, Kluber or bringing back Richards?   I would prefer to look at some guys in FA that have a chance to regain themselves, or both if the deal makes sense.   AS you said in another thread, keep the farm intact for mid seasons needs. 

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

There is no player that will guarantee put us over the top.  You make a trade to give you the best chance, its all anyone can do.
Im not suggesting blowing up the farm, if the deals are bad you dont make them... but for the right guy, you do it, thats all im saying.

It comes down to this, do you pay the price for a Musgrove or Snell, or take a shot at Paxton, Kluber or bringing back Richards?   I would prefer to look at some guys in FA that have a chance to regain themselves, or both if the deal makes sense.   AS you said in another thread, keep the farm intact for mid seasons needs. 

At this time I think the Angels need to make trades for players that can possibly secure a window of 3-4 years of performance.  I think a bad trade is one that does not give the Angels a solution for 3-4 yrs.

[Erstad Grit]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Even Happ on 1 year deal

I doubt anyone is "anti-Happ". However this team is not a Happ away from being a contender. If it's Happ plus Bauer, Odorizzi, some pen, and a catcher then sure

[tdawg87]

Happ?

 

Hold on a minute.

@Angels 1961 did you go to Hofstra?

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, eligrba said:

Not much.  People are overly optimistic to believe Adell is only a year away.  

Not necessarily, as he hit AA pitching well in 2019.   He probably just needs most of 2021 in AAA, and to work on the defense consistency.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

8 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I understand your point of view and it's not a bad one, but the number of prospects we have in the top 100 isn't something I think we should be aiming for as a legitimate "plan". We want guys we can turn into good players, and just because someone is rated in some "ultimate" prospect list doesn't mean they'll be a good player.

Baseball history is rife with players who peaked at AAA.

[Angels 1961]

12 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Baseball history is rife with players who peaked at AAA.

 

12 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Baseball history is rife with players who peaked at AAA.

Old book by Brandon Wood, photos of Casey Kotchman.

[Stradling]

Kotchman had a 10 year MLB career and had a .711 career OPS.  So peaked in the minors?  Maybe.  But he carved out a decent career. 

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Kotchman had a 10 year MLB career and had a .711 career OPS.  So peaked in the minors?  Maybe.  But he carved out a decent career. 

Who knows what happens if the Martin throw to 2B didn’t bean him.

[Stradling]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

Who knows what happens if the Martin throw to 2B didn’t bean him.

Yea I think about that and his mono.