Do the Angels really need to sign or trade for two starting pitchers?

[Cosmo_Kramer]

5 hours ago, Trendon said:

There's no way the Angels- or any team- makes it through the entire season with no injuries and uses just 5 starting pitchers.

People are going to get hurt and they are going to shuffle the rotation around off days to ensure that they can maximize how many starts they get from their best starters.

I don't know if it's been done before, but I remember the 2012 Reds rotation was ridiculous.

Cueto - 33 starts

Latos - 33 starts

Bailey - 33 starts

Arroyo - 32 starts

Leake - 30 starts

Todd Redmond - 1 start

... That's it for the whole year. Wow

[Wisconsin27]

Barria doesn't play in the pen;  he needs to be apart of a deal for an additional SP

We need a FA ace; Bauer makes sense of multiple levels, but I don't have as much faith in him as I did with, say, Cole.

I do think we need two, losing Barria.  Pushes everyone down a slot and frees up options.

We do need another reliever.

I don't see the RF need as many here do.

 

 

[Cosmo_Kramer]

Just now, Wisconsin27 said:

Barria doesn't play in the pen;  he needs to be apart of a deal for an additional SP

We need a FA ace; Bauer makes sense of multiple levels, but I don't have as much faith in him as I did with, say, Cole.

I do think we need two, losing Barria.  Pushes everyone down a slot and frees up options.

We do need another reliever.

I don't see the RF need as many here do.

Barria just isn't great, so agree. He's fine as depth, but he's out of options.

Bauer, SP2, Archie Bradley, defensive RF, defensive C

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Right now, if they lined up in a 5.5 man rotation, as they have when Ohtani was healthy and pitching every Sunday,  there are only like 10 times they need a 6th starter. 
 

So sign two guys and demote Heaney or Canning to 10 Starts. Makes no sense. Or go to a straight six, ask Ohtani to Occasionally pitch on 5 days rest instead of 6. And get them all to pitch 27 times or so.

 

When they sign two guys let me know I was wrong. 
 

When they don’t, I’ll be sure to You know I was right.

I think the difference is, I'm not really expecting any more than 250-275 innings out of Heaney, Canning and Ohtani. That leaves an easy full time starter spot to Sandoval and Naughton (based on your depth chart) which probably represents replacement level starting pitching. I don't think this scenario sinks the season unless we operate under the assumption that it wont happen.

Whether or not they decide to address it comes down to a lot of factors, particularly the cost of acquiring that second starter. They might just have to take the risk, but I think a second starter is just as important as a right fielder and a second catcher.

[Docwaukee]

49 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I think the difference is, I'm not really expecting any more than 250-275 innings out of Heaney, Canning and Ohtani. That leaves an easy full time starter spot to Sandoval and Naughton (based on your depth chart) which probably represents replacement level starting pitching. I don't think this scenario sinks the season unless we operate under the assumption that it wont happen.

Whether or not they decide to address it comes down to a lot of factors, particularly the cost of acquiring that second starter. They might just have to take the risk, but I think a second starter is just as important as a right fielder and a second catcher.

I think it also a bit presumptuous for all of us to think of Bundy as some guy who's automatically going to pitch like he did in 2020 for all of 2021 when he didn't come close for the four years of his career prior to that.  

It's helpful that his peripherals back up his performance and the one outlier to his other seasons was his reduced hr rate which also makes sense moving from the AL east to the AL west.  

To me, a reasonable assumption for him in 2021 is that he's somewhere between what he was last year and what he's been in the past otherwise with makes him a solid #3.  I think Canning and Heaney will be similar actually.  You add an ace and another guy similar to the others and you've got a very solid rotation.  

[Docwaukee]

Adding that second starter really boils down to what the Angels think of both Barria and Sandoval.  If they add that second guy for the rotation then I think it speaks loud and clear.  

[Hubs]

Ok so good points on health. Maybe I’m expecting too much out of our current group. I think Bundy, Heaney, Canning, and Ohtani make 100-110 Starts at least. I’m hoping for 600 innings here. 
Someone said 275? Maybe that was without Bundy, so ok, you’re hoping for 450? That’s what 90 starts?

 So In my depth chart then, if you get 90 out of these 4, instead of 110, then Barria gets 25 and Bauer gets 30 and Sandoval or Naughton or Detmers or Pena gets 17. 

I know Health is a concern so yes if they could acquire someone like JC Ramirez on a minor league deal. 

In 2022, Heaney and Bundy are FA, so I want to see whether any of the young guys are capable starters. 

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Ok so good points on health. Maybe I’m expecting too much out of our current group. I think Bundy, Heaney, Canning, and Ohtani make 100-110 Starts at least. I’m hoping for 600 innings here. 

I just cannot wrap my head around this. 

I mean, hoping is one thing, but realistically? That's 25 starts at least between the four guys you listed, and two of them have never made more than 17 starts in a MLB season. Heaney has done it once in his career. 

I would be absolutely floored (and happy af) if those four guys can get anywhere near 100 starts. 

Ohtani is the one you're banking on way too much, I think. He's pitched 80 innings total, since 2017. If he tops that amount in 2021 I'll shit a brick. 

To be honest I think 80 starts is more realistic. 

The idea of getting 2 starters is so we don't need Barria or Sandoval in the rotation. But they'll both still get plenty of starts. Barria doesn't have options, and maybe it's just me but I don't think we should pass up the opportunity to get another, better SP just so we can ensure he has a roster spot. Plus, whomever gets brought in is going to be here for longer than a year. Unless of course we bring in J..C Ramirez?...like you suggested (that makes zero sense to me tbh).

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, Hubs said:

Right now, if they lined up in a 5.5 man rotation, as they have when Ohtani was healthy and pitching every Sunday,  there are only like 10 times they need a 6th starter. 
 

So sign two guys and demote Heaney or Canning to 10 Starts. Makes no sense. Or go to a straight six, ask Ohtani to Occasionally pitch on 5 days rest instead of 6. And get them all to pitch 27 times or so.

 

When they sign two guys let me know I was wrong. 
 

When they don’t, I’ll be sure to You know I was right.

To be honest, I do not think they need two starters.  I prefer getting the frontline starter and one more lockdown bullpen piece.

[Hubs]

17 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I just cannot wrap my head around this. 

I mean, hoping is one thing, but realistically? That's 25 starts at least between the four guys you listed, and two of them have never made more than 17 starts in a MLB season. Heaney has done it once in his career. 

I would be absolutely floored (and happy af) if those four guys can get anywhere near 100 starts. 

Ohtani is the one you're banking on way too much, I think. He's pitched 80 innings total, since 2017. If he tops that amount in 2021 I'll shit a brick. 

To be honest I think 80 starts is more realistic. 

The idea of getting 2 starters is so we don't need Barria or Sandoval in the rotation. But they'll both still get plenty of starts. Barria doesn't have options, and maybe it's just me but I don't think we should pass up the opportunity to get another, better SP just so we can ensure he has a roster spot. Plus, whomever gets brought in is going to be here for longer than a year. Unless of course we bring in J..C Ramirez?...like you suggested (that makes zero sense to me tbh).

Outside of the disaster that was Doug White and Brad Ausmus, Barria has pitched two seasons with ERA’s in the low to mid 3. Yes it was only 5 starts in an abbreviated season and yes his FIP isn’t as kind but I think he can be a rotation guy going forward for the league minimum.

80 starts is absolutely ridiculously Pessimistic. For the three non Ohtani guys sure, ok. 

I meant JC Ramirez on a minor league deal, obviously. Someone with experience starting who’s willing to start the year at AAA. They don’t have the roster spots or options (or money) to sign two midrange starters in free agency and address other needs in the pen, RF, and at C.

Am I in favor of a frontline guy to lead the staff, over two midrange guys? Yes. But I think you and others want to give up our farm for a young Ace and then sign Jake Odorozzi or someone like him hoping he’ll give you depth, even though he started three times last season and had an ERA in the 6’s.

Maybe they could Trade Heaney for David Price and a young starter who would be in line for AAA this season and then sign a guy. That I’d be in favor of, you get depth and years of control and you erase a question mark in Heaney’s durability.

But none of this matters anyway, as the Angels are more likely to sign Realmuto and cobble together a rotation as they are to follow any of yours or my suggestions.

[Hubs]

I also think they’ll have a tough time signing a top free agent without promising him 30 starts, which is what they’ll have to do if they get two free agents.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I also think they’ll have a tough time signing a top free agent without promising him 30 starts, which is what they’ll have to do if they get two free agents.

[Hubs]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Sorry you don’t understand.