Trumped

[angelinkc]

27 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Dude, i'm not a libtard, just a life long Trump hater going back to the early 90's.  It isn't (D) or (R), it's the fucking (T) and wish he would have just stayed on the tee box. 

Yes Cruz was my choice. Not crazy about Trump but the other side hates America to the core. 

[UndertheHalo]

12 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think that when it comes to the driving sources, power and money, you are right.

I don’t think you can translate that to a regular confederate soldier though.  It’s not like most of them were plantation owners

No, but the southern oligarchs shaped the south’s narratives and the poor people who ended up making up the majority of the rank and file solider definitely ended up fighting for all of that.  I don’t think we legitimately have a competing more “noble” poor southerner narrative that was more interested in states rights.  And to the extent that they did have any narrative it was just regurgitating whatever the national southern narrative was.  Again. Very much born of the defense of and desire to maintain slavery.  
 

My point here isn’t to say that every souther solider was evil.  Every individual solider that fought in the Army of the third reich wasn’t evil either.  But people tend to follower their leaders.  It is what it is.  We can be clear eyed about what the southern cause was about. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[mtangelsfan]

8 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

No, but the southern oligarchs shaped the south’s narratives and the poor people who ended up making up the majority of the rank and file solider definitely ended up fighting for all of that.  I don’t think we legitimately have a competing more “noble” poor southerner narrative that was more interested in states rights.  And to the extent that they did have any narrative it was just regurgitating whatever the national southern narrative was.  Again. Very much born of the defense of and desire to maintain slavery.  
 

My point here isn’t to say that every souther solider was evil.  Every individual solider that fought in the Army of the third reich wasn’t evil either.  But people tend to follower their leaders.  It is what it is.  We can be clear eyed about what the southern cause was about. 

Nobody is noble in war.  Humans killing other humans is not noble.  The ability to dehumanize the “enemy” is how the powers that be convince non-sociopaths to kill each other.

[RallyMo]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Nobody is noble in war.  Humans killing other humans is not noble.  The ability to dehumanize the “enemy” is how the powers that be convince non-sociopaths to kill each other.

Yep. Spot on. At the same time, there are clearly sides to a war, and though they may have driving factors that go beyond simple morality there are "bad" actors to be sure. Nazis, etc. As I type this, I realize that we all know this.

Dehumanizing people is how all sorts of otherwise unjustifiable positions are validated, slavery obviously amongst them.

Here's a quote from Texas' secession-opening written salvo:

"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

This kind of shit has been going on in one form or a another forever and it's time for it to stop.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, fishbulb said:

Here's a quote from Texas' secession-opening written salvo:

"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

This kind of shit has been going on in one form or a another forever and it's time for it to stop.

There were very fine people on both sides.

[angelinkc]

We should really stop pretending these riots are about race and the civil war. If it was the Democrat party would have a new name and accept responsibility for its role. The civil war monuments are low hanging fruit in a much larger goal of erasing America and American History. This shit won’t stop until America Is destroyed. The  goal of these fascists is to remove the Bill of Rights and the American Flag. 

[Rico]

39 minutes ago, angelinkc said:

We should really stop pretending these riots are about race and the civil war. If it was the Democrat party would have a new name and accept responsibility for its role. The civil war monuments are low hanging fruit in a much larger goal of erasing America and American History. This shit won’t stop until America Is destroyed. The  goal of these fascists is to remove the Bill of Rights and the American Flag. 

So you're anti-fascist now?

[angelinkc]

Just now, Rico said:

So you're anti-fascist now?

Have always been. Your antifa thugs claiming to be antifacist is like Hitler claiming to be pro Jew

[Crampknees]

1 hour ago, angelinkc said:

We should really stop pretending these riots are about race and the civil war. If it was the Democrat party would have a new name and accept responsibility for its role. The civil war monuments are low hanging fruit in a much larger goal of erasing America and American History. This shit won’t stop until America Is destroyed. The  goal of these fascists is to remove the Bill of Rights and the American Flag. 

I think you would be a better fit for that if you said it on Tucker Carlson's show. You are just wasting a good campaign cheer on here, just imagine you are on Tucker's show and say the exact same thing, he makes his disgruntled face and boom, you are a fucking hero.  You have the skills but still playing in the summer rookie league.  Time for you to get the call.  

[mtangelsfan]

3 hours ago, Franklin Bluth said:

There were very fine people on both sides.

which "sides" are you referring to?

[UndertheHalo]

5 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Nobody is noble in war.  Humans killing other humans is not noble.  The ability to dehumanize the “enemy” is how the powers that be convince non-sociopaths to kill each other.

Wasn’t saying that war is noble or the people who lead to it are.  I was saying that there was not a higher minded ideology that rank and file confederate soldiers believed in that was separate from the motivations of the slave owning class.  All this “lost cause” stuff has been layered into the history of the conflict over the last 100+ years.  It’s bullshit and it is very poorly rooted in historical reality.  The rotten core of all of it is white supremacy. 
 

seriously, look up the daughters of the confederacy.  Very, very active in promoting their stuff in school text books in the early and mid 20th century.  They mainstreamed it with great success.  They’re the ones behind tons of these memorials and statues.  This is why we see these “but actually the civil war wasn’t about slavery” takes all the time.  Most people’s exposure to this history is just primary school social studies.  And if they paid a little attention maybe some of US history in high school.  I’m sure you know how completely clueless about civics and history most adults are. 
 

[tdawg87]

3 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

which "sides" are you referring to?

LTangelsfan

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 hours ago, Rico said:

So you're anti-fascist now?

No, he's a Trump fan.

[AngelsLakersFan]

God damn, you guys are making me want to watch Gone With The Wind.

[RallyMo]

6 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

No, he's a Trump fan.

If he was a lady, we'd call him Auntie Fascist. 

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING TO THE IMPROV. BE SURE AND TIP YOUR SERVERS. GOODNIGHT, EVERYBODY!

[tdawg87]

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-glass-water-west-point-20200613-dkioabuiirhz7pelj465p2j6he-story.html

Not good. Maybe he was drunk.

[Taylor]

29 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-trump-glass-water-west-point-20200613-dkioabuiirhz7pelj465p2j6he-story.html

Not good. Maybe he was drunk.

I wonder if the rumor mill will start about Trump's declining health like it did with Hillary in 2016. Remember when she tripped, and 40% of the country fervently believed she was on death's doorstep?

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Theo Huxtable said:

I wonder if the rumor mill will start about Trump's declining health like it did with Hillary in 2016. Remember when she tripped, and 40% of the country fervently believed she was on death's doorstep?

I want to see Biden and Trump have an old guy fight.

[St1ck]

I think Trump has always had a fear of stairs.  No clue what the water thing is about. He's done shit like that before.

[Lou]

You know who else is drunk?

Craig 

[St1ck]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

You know who else is drunk?

Craig 

You can't prove that.

[tdawg87]

30 minutes ago, Lou said:

You know who else is drunk?

Craig 

Nope.

[Taylor]

41 minutes ago, st1ckboy said:

I think Trump has always had a fear of stairs.  No clue what the water thing is about. He's done shit like that before.

"I'm used to a car with some stairs."

[Claude]

Oh can I kiss you too.

 

[Claude]