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Angels discussed Clevinger with Indians


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This is what happened: Indian's GM: Hello? Eppler: Good morning, it's Billy Eppler. How are you doing? Indian's GM: I'm doing well Bill how is your family? Eppler: Doing great. Doi

I'll go on record as saying no way do I trade Adell for Clevinger, even as a straight one-for-one. If that means we can't have Clevinger, so be it.

Get bent Jerry Dipoto

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Clevinger is a favorite of mine to be sure. And if the cost was Jo Adell, and only Jo Adell, then sure I make that deal. I'd still have Brandon Marsh and Jordyn Adams in the system, and the Angels could really use Clevinger. 

But the Indians would be well served to ask quite a bit more. Just as an example, when Boston traded for a 28 year old 5 time all star in Chris Sale, they gave up Basabe, Diaz, Moncada and Kopech. Three out of four would appear on top prospect lists. Two out of four would become building blocks for the future of the White Sox franchise. One is well on his way to becoming a certified superstar. 

Now Clevinger does not have Sale's prior success. Or upside for that matter, but close. But he does come with one additional year of team control. The Indians would and could reasonably ask for a package about 1/2 to 3/4 of that strength and not be laughed at.

Adell, he's right there's in value with where Moncada was, and figures to be every bit as good as Moncada in the long run. One more prospect on par with Kopech would likely make this a reasonable fair price and return for the Indians. The problem is, the Angels don't have anyone that's on par with Kopech aside from Adell. Kopech was a first round pick, and ranked between 16-34 on the top prospect lists, was headed for AA and was the hardest thrower in all minor league baseball. 

So where does that leave the Angels? Needing to piece together a group for prospects and players from their staff of non-essentials that could equate Kopech in value. Not an easy task. Because you're trading Adell, you can't very well trade Marsh and Adams, or at least you shouldn't. The Angels could offer up what little they have in pitching, but the Indians pitching options exceed that of which the Angels could offer. The best they could do there is Patrick Sandoval. They could add in Luis Rengifo which also helps, but Cleveland will want some potential in the last trade piece to equate Kopech. I think this is where Cleveland would ask Jose Soriano, the Angels top pitching prospect. The Angels may counter with Hector Yan, but I think the happy medium here is Chris Rodriguez, who has been hurt (like Clevinger) and offers basically the same arsenal and delivery as Clevinger at this stage of the low minors. Getting Rod would be an absolute steal for the Indians and they wouldn't  say no.

So my question to Angels fans that know anything about prospects, would you be willing to trade Jo Adell, Patrick Sandoval, Luis Rengifo and Chris Rodriguez for Mike Clevinger?

Personally, no. I wouldn't. It's too much. The Angels system is too shallow in pitching to take that hit. 

Would Clevinger be the difference between playoffs and no playoffs? Yes. I believe he  would be. But in two years, Sandoval and Rodriguez will be dynamic weapons in the major leagues, Adell will be on the verge of superstardom and Rengifo will be a quality starting middle infielder.

But I think if you take away Rodriguez from the desk, and just made it Adell, Rengifo and Sandoval, I'd consider it. But I don't see that happening. As an interesting bit of behind the scenes history, Mike Trout himself saw videos of Adell on the internet and was in Eppler's ear about the kid. When your franchise player and the GOAT hand selects a prospect that he'd like to see the Angels draft, that carries some weight. It isn't Trout's decision obviously, but that clearly plays a role here.

 

Edited by Second Base
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Baseballtradevalues.com has Clevinger for Adell straight up as fair. In fact, it thinks Cleveland would get more value long term with Adell than with Clevinger ($96M to $83M). That may well be true, however, Adell is unproven while Clevinger is a known commodity and looks like an ace, so I get why that deal probably wouldn’t work in real life.

I think I would send Adell for Clevinger in a one for one if it were proposed, but man that would hurt badly. To think we had Clevinger and sent him for Vinnie Pestano 😭

Overall, rather than strip the farm of its best pieces for Clevinger, I’d rather to spend our way out of this and trade for a lesser arm like David Price. Why else sell Wilson for salary relief?

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10 minutes ago, JBR said:

Baseballtradevalues.com has Clevinger for Adell straight up as fair. In fact, it thinks Cleveland would get more value long term with Adell than with Clevinger ($96M to $83M). That may well be true, however, Adell is unproven while Clevinger is a known commodity and looks like an ace, so I get why that deal probably wouldn’t work in real life.

I think I would send Adell for Clevinger in a one for one if it were proposed, but man that would hurt badly. To think we had Clevinger and sent him for Vinnie Pestano 😭

Overall, rather than strip the farm of its best pieces for Clevinger, I’d rather to spend our way out of this and trade for a lesser arm like David Price. Why else sell Wilson for salary relief?

Welcome to the board. And I think you're right JBR. They'll likely deal for a lesser arm like David Price. He'd cost less in prospects, and the salary wouldn't hurt the Angels in the long run as it's just three years. With him and Pujols coming off the books in the next 2-3 years, it would allow the Angels enough time to develop some of their pricing prospects like Sandoval, Suarez, Rodriguez, Soriano and Yan, and would fit the timeline where you can begin to expect to see extensions for guys like Ohtani and Fletcher. 

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Sometimes I think Angels fans are unique in how willing we are to discuss trading very elite level prospects for other players.  I guess Brandon Wood and Dallas McPherson conditioned us to do that.  Plus the extreme and immediate need for a #1 starter.  And Trout's biological clock ticking (no, not like that).

But I am sure the Blue Jays board didn't have so many discussions about trading Vladdy Jr last year.  Nor the Braves board about Acuna two years ago.

Yeah, I know, we rightly have more of a win-now mindset than those teams did...but Adell has got to be untouchable at this point if we're keeping our heads on straight.

Edited by Lazorko Saves
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5 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Sometimes I think Angels fans are unique in how willing we are to discuss trading very elite level prospects for other players.  I guess Brandon Wood and Dallas McPherson conditioned us to do that.  Plus the extreme and immediate need for a #1 starter.  And Trout's biological clock ticking (no, not like that).

But I am sure the Blue Jays board didn't have so many discussions about trading Vladdy Jr last year.  Nor the Braves board about Acuna two years ago.

Yeah, I know, we rightly have more of a win-now mindset than those teams did...but Adell has got to be untouchable at this point if we're keeping our heads on straight.

Hmm, I don't see it like that at all, personally. I think we're all about hoarding everything now and proposing hilarious trades involving star players and a handful of prospects we don't care about. 

It's funny though because we used to whine about Stoneman being unwilling to trade anyone. 

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11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Hmm, I don't see it like that at all, personally. I think we're all about hoarding everything now and proposing hilarious trades involving star players and a handful of prospects we don't care about. 

It's funny though because we used to whine about Stoneman being unwilling to trade anyone. 

I agree with @tdawg87. I personally think when resources are scarce, especially for an extended period, hoarding feels prudent and wise. It makes perfect sense. However, for me the priority is winning now and I find it hard to imagine, barring injury, that the Angels are better in the next 2 years with Adell than with Clevinger on the roster.  

Trout, Rendon, and Simba are in their prime now and need to best supporting cast possible to make a push before they start to decline. 

In 3-5 years it’s not hard to imagine Adell closing the value gap with Clevinger, maybe even surpassing Clevinger, but it’s so hard to project that far out with much confidence.

We basically know what Clevinger is now (the front of rotation arm we need), we think Adell will be good (maybe great) but there’s no guarantee, and the window to win is wide open now and might close a bit with every passing year. With that, moving Adell might make a lot of sense, as painful as it’d be. 

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Since there’s seemingly been a lot of chatter between Cleveland and Eppler, and Eppler supposedly went after arms with 5-6 years of control last deadline, I wonder if they could pivot to someone like Adam Civale or Zach Plesac. Would you send Marsh straight up for either? Rengifo +?

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7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Clevinger strikes me as the type of pitcher who’s control could come apart at any time. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him but not for adell. Or even marsh. 

What do you base that on? Legitimate question, not implying I think you're wrong.

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1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

Lots of moving part in his delivery and lots of emotion. Nothing specific. 

Certainly possible. His walk rate has improved every year but I know walks are only one part of "control".

I'm on the fence. I think Eppler is 100% not trading Jo Adell, so that basically means we're out. But considering a "three year window" I think Clevinger would put us where we need to be. But that's also shortsighted and despite this being his last year, I don't believe Eppler is willing to completely disregard the future in the hopes of getting to the playoffs NOW and getting an extension for himself. It's definitely not a situation I'd like to be in. We could be kicking ourselves in 2022 because Adell is a dud, or we could be doing the same because we traded him, didn't win the WS, and now he's a superstar.

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