Maddon: The Angel Way

[Pancake Bear]

Maddon has talked a lot about creating a team philosophy that goes from the Angels down through the minor leagues. 

Someone else can probably remember the details better, but as I recall it’s a focus on fundamentals, station to station baseball , but and runs, etc. 

What will that look like for guys like Trout or Upton? Less home runs? The rest of the team? What about pitching?

[Chuck]

Good post. I'm actually glad you brought this up because I think we'll see some of our guys with decent to good speed start stealing more bases, hitting and running and bunting when necessary.

I like good analytics and Maddon certainly incorporates them into his philosophy, but he's also old school too.

[Pancake Bear]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Good post. I'm actually glad you brought this up because I think we'll see some of our guys with decent to good speed start stealing more bases, hitting and running and bunting when necessary.

I like good analytics and Maddon certainly incorporates them into his philosophy, but he's also old school too.

One thing that stuck out to me about the Rendon signing is how much he fits this. Good character guy. Can hit home runs and steal bases, but he’s mostly a high avg/obp guy who runs the bases well and plays excellent defense. Fletcher and Simmons fit the mold of what I feel like he’s talking about also.

Also seems closer to 2012 Mike Trout than any iteration since then. I wonder if we see something more like 30-35 homers with more contact and less K’s. Ohtani has crazy power, too, but he’s another guy with a lot of speed and I suspect the ability to hit for a decent average if that was what he was going for. 

[jchalos89]

I like that philosophy since it almost guarantees Puljos will not get much of playing time next season

[T.G.]

This isn't something new... Mike Scioscia did this when he first arrived on Anaheim. He set the tone, developed the culture, and mind set throughout the system.

Glad to see Maddon getting back to this.

[Pancake Bear]

3 minutes ago, True Grich said:

This isn't something new... Mike Scioscia did this when he first arrived on Anaheim. He set the tone, developed the culture, and mind set throughout the system.

Glad to see Maddon getting back to this.

Things kinda shifted under Dipoto. 

[Lou]

I like The Winning Way 

[T.G.]

6 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Things kinda shifted under Dipoto. 

Yup

[Fish Oil]

I remember they had yearly targets for minor leaguers in terms of steal attempts, going from first to third on a single, scoring from second on a single, that sort of stuff. They were less concerned with success in these attempts than they were in the young players learning this style off baseball. Scioscia talked about keeping pressure on the defense. 

[Duren, Duren]

You need a manager to get the most out of the talent he has. When he comes to a new team he inherits the roster already there plus whatever changes are made. But the first year is often a matter of experiment. Later on specific players will be targeted who are more exact matches for his needs. 

The new manager needs first hand observation to really get a feel for his team. Spring training will be very crucial in  finalizing how he shapes the team. 

Batting order, on field defensive chemistry, running and pinch hitting skills and so on need to be assessed on the field as well as from stats and past profiles. 

 Plus the strengths and weaknesses of each pitcher. Assistant coaches are very important that first year, when a veteran braintrust observe, consult and strategize. 

Maddon is in an interesting position. He has a  core nucleus with tremendous assets, some others with great but untapped potential and others average or below in various categories. 

The raw materials are his to use as he sees fit. Based on his record I'm sure he will find a way to maximize production. It may take a month or two, but a well oiled machine will be in place before too long.

 

 

[Docwaukee]

It's not just about taking the extra base or bunting or stealing a bag but putting yourself in a opportunity to take advantage of an opponents complacency or putting pressure on defenses and hitters and pitchers to take them out of a relaxed environment so they're more likely to make mistakes.  

Rounding every base hard in case the defender bobbles the ball or doesn't give full effort. 
Getting good primary and secondary leads for balls in the dirt. 
Fouling off tough pitches with two strikes instead of always selling out for the hr. 
Showing bunt occasionally so it brings the infield in just enough to make a less than routing grounder that much more difficult. 
Taking the extra effort hold runners on and control the run game. 
Hitting the cut off man in the chest on a line and not just blooping the ball back to him. 
Getting a runner in from third with less than two outs.  
Shortening up your swing with runners in scoring position and two strikes.  

A lot of the things a guy like Simmons does where he throws behind a runner that takes a wide turn or threatens to.  

Continue playing the game regardless of the situation.  

Joe was also on MLB radio the other day and one of his first items of business was to identify his leaders and establish protocols that are consistent.  What are the expectations.  What time do we show up.  Who holds people accountable for certain things. What do they wear when going on the road.  What do we do before the game.  After the game.  During the game.  To align your leadership and get them on the same page.  The players don't just police themselves but establish trust and respect from the top down so it's clear who the outliers are.  Leadership is action and it's establish from the top down. 

And most importantly it's about communication.  Disagree with me all you want, but tell me you disagree and why.  Don't tell someone else you disagree with me.  

None of this stuff is easy and that's why he's here.  He has a history of being able to do this well.  

That's the Angel Way.  

 

[T.G.]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Disagree with me all you want, but tell me you disagree and why.  Don't tell someone else you disagree with me. 

Can we agree that I don't disagree with you agreeing to disagree when we agree?

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Can we agree that I don't disagree with you agreeing to disagree when we agree?

I agree.  

[JAHV76]

Maddon has a hell of a lot more personality than Ausmus. Players will gravitate to his style and will be more relaxed delivering better results than 2019.

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, JAHV76 said:

Maddon has a hell of a lot more personality than Ausmus. Players will gravitate to his style and will be more relaxed delivering better results than 2019.

I don’t know that I’d agree with Maddon in all his strategy an in game decisions, but man is he fun to hear talk about baseball. His enthusiasm is ridiculously infectious. I genuinely can’t think of anyone I’d rather sit down and talk to (or just listen to, to be honest) about baseball. Gotta think he’s gonna make a great impression on this team. 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, JAHV76 said:

Maddon has a hell of a lot more personality than Ausmus. Players will gravitate to his style and will be more relaxed delivering better results than 2019.

Maddon has a style.  

[Second Base]

46 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

It's not just about taking the extra base or bunting or stealing a bag but putting yourself in a opportunity to take advantage of an opponents complacency or putting pressure on defenses and hitters and pitchers to take them out of a relaxed environment so they're more likely to make mistakes.  

Rounding every base hard in case the defender bobbles the ball or doesn't give full effort. 
Getting good primary and secondary leads for balls in the dirt. 
Fouling off tough pitches with two strikes instead of always selling out for the hr. 
Showing bunt occasionally so it brings the infield in just enough to make a less than routing grounder that much more difficult. 
Taking the extra effort hold runners on and control the run game. 
Hitting the cut off man in the chest on a line and not just blooping the ball back to him. 
Getting a runner in from third with less than two outs.  
Shortening up your swing with runners in scoring position and two strikes.  

A lot of the things a guy like Simmons does where he throws behind a runner that takes a wide turn or threatens to.  

Continue playing the game regardless of the situation.  

Joe was also on MLB radio the other day and one of his first items of business was to identify his leaders and establish protocols that are consistent.  What are the expectations.  What time do we show up.  Who holds people accountable for certain things. What do they wear when going on the road.  What do we do before the game.  After the game.  During the game.  To align your leadership and get them on the same page.  The players don't just police themselves but establish trust and respect from the top down so it's clear who the outliers are.  Leadership is action and it's establish from the top down. 

And most importantly it's about communication.  Disagree with me all you want, but tell me you disagree and why.  Don't tell someone else you disagree with me.  

None of this stuff is easy and that's why he's here.  He has a history of being able to do this well.  

That's the Angel Way.  

 

The leadership aspect is so important. Anyone that's coached at any competitive level can tell you, there needs to be this degree of connectedness between the coach and the players. I used to tell my basketball players "you run through a wall for me and I'll get kicked out of the game for you." And that mantra really worked well with them and me.

I can only imagine the amplification of it at the major league level. Spending as much time together as they do, it has to be a family. The players have to see the manager in a vulnerable state because it humanizes him but also shows that he will stride to win in the trenches with the rest of the team. And that's where I believe Ausmus came up short. He was a leader, to be sure. He was composed and calculated. But did the players know what lengths he would go to for them? Would the players run through the proverbial wall for him? I don't know. 

And then the team hierarchy is also do critical as you pointed out. This is a team that has player leadership in place. The management needs to match it. Trout and Pujols are the leaders. It's not to say the others aren't, it's only to point out that in a human way, they make up a support role that is the very fabric of the team. Simmons and Upton specifically. 

But what I've viewed the Angels missing are three main components.

1. The sacrificial veteran leadership - Jerry Dipoto didn't make many great moves, but possibly the most underrated one he made was the low-key signing of John McDonald, Jonny-Mac. The players immediately recognized him as this veteran that shows the youngsters just how much this game means. Here's not the most talented and won't grumble because someone gets an opportunity over him. But he's that consistent leader. He played a bigger role in 2014's success than we might realize. I am hoping this is the unassuming role that Pujols is ready to step into.

2. The bulldog pitcher - Give me the damn ball. This is my game. That's Washburn, Lackey, Weaver, and it was Richards too when he was healthy. The pitching staff is not made up of majir league veterans, it's a bunch of younger guys and Heaney and Bundy, who decidedly aren't the bulldog type. This pitching staff needs a burly veteran that steps in and regardless of results is old school. Will own the inside of the plate and has a competitive fire that drives the youngsters. Skaggs had that potential, 8but he never grew into it. That's why I like Kluber so much and why I was pushing for Hamels. The pitchers need that personality in the bullpen and in the clubhouse. Some surly, cocky SOB that loves this game and his teammates too much to see them not pick a fight m

3. The manager, as we already discussed. Maddon is here to fix that. 

So when the Angels are building their 2020 roster, or more specifically Eppler is, I have to believe he's got an eye on a lot more than just the numbers. We need the personalities. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Second Base

[Pancake Bear]

21 minutes ago, Second Base said:

The bulldog pitcher - Give me the damn ball. This is my game

Agree. Rotation needs a leader. While I’m not the biggest fan of Bumgarner, this is one thing he’d bring in spades. Dunno if he’d come to the AL regardless, but there are some pluses I see in him. That’s one. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

It's not just about taking the extra base or bunting or stealing a bag but putting yourself in a opportunity to take advantage of an opponents complacency or putting pressure on defenses and hitters and pitchers to take them out of a relaxed environment so they're more likely to make mistakes.  

Rounding every base hard in case the defender bobbles the ball or doesn't give full effort. 
Getting good primary and secondary leads for balls in the dirt. 
Fouling off tough pitches with two strikes instead of always selling out for the hr. 
Showing bunt occasionally so it brings the infield in just enough to make a less than routing grounder that much more difficult. 
Taking the extra effort hold runners on and control the run game. 
Hitting the cut off man in the chest on a line and not just blooping the ball back to him. 
Getting a runner in from third with less than two outs.  
Shortening up your swing with runners in scoring position and two strikes.  

A lot of the things a guy like Simmons does where he throws behind a runner that takes a wide turn or threatens to.  

Continue playing the game regardless of the situation.  

Joe was also on MLB radio the other day and one of his first items of business was to identify his leaders and establish protocols that are consistent.  What are the expectations.  What time do we show up.  Who holds people accountable for certain things. What do they wear when going on the road.  What do we do before the game.  After the game.  During the game.  To align your leadership and get them on the same page.  The players don't just police themselves but establish trust and respect from the top down so it's clear who the outliers are.  Leadership is action and it's establish from the top down. 

And most importantly it's about communication.  Disagree with me all you want, but tell me you disagree and why.  Don't tell someone else you disagree with me.  

None of this stuff is easy and that's why he's here.  He has a history of being able to do this well.  

That's the Angel Way.  

 

And that is what we did not have last year! And why there was a quick change after last years fiasco and tragic loss of Skaggs.

[Second Base]

13 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Agree. Rotation needs a leader. While I’m not the biggest fan of Bumgarner, this is one thing he’d bring in spades. Dunno if he’d come to the AL regardless, but there are some pluses I see in him. That’s one. 

Allow me to paint a picture for you. Griffin Canning faces off against the Dodgers last year. Local product, top 100 prospect, spitting 96 mph fire, has a mid-3's ERA at the time. One of the brighter young talents in all of MLB. 

He faces off against Russell Martin, grizzled Dodgers catcher, takes a ton of pride in how he leads a pitching staff. Score is 0-0, and a 96 mph fastball gets away from Canning and hits Martin square between the shoulders. What does Martin do? Turns around and glares at Canning, the way a veteran should and would.

What happens next is indicative of this team's lack of leadership. Canning is afraid to challenge the next three hitters on the inner part of the plate with any velocity. Three batters later, it's a 3-0 score. It isn't until Joc Pederson comes up that Canning comes back inside, and he wastes Joc on three pitches to end the inning. 

If the Angels had that veteran pitcher in hand, with that demeanor, Canning would've hit Martin and held his glare. It's not about challenging him, and Canning didn't hit him on purpose, but the players have to know that he will fight for the inner half. Canning has to know that, "F you attitude, walk your grandpa ass down to 1B and let me get. Back to shutting the rest of your offense down."

Brad Ausmus wasn't the manager to instill that. Doug White was a freaking joke as a coach. And there's no veteran to tell Canning who he is. And that's the result. 

Mickey Calloway is that coach. So is a Maddon. Now they just need the veteran.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Second Base

[stormngt]

Anyone find it Ironic when so many of you wanted Scioscus run out of town and now we praise Maddon for bringing "Angel ball" back.  The Style that Scioscia used effectively until he lost all of his players that could play it?

[ten ocho recon scout]

@Second Base, good call on mcdonald. I remember him being pretty looked up to.

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

@Second Base, good call on mcdonald. I remember him being pretty looked up to.

I could see us acquiring Zobrit for similar reasons.  

[Pancake Bear]

52 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I could see us acquiring Zobrit for similar reasons.  

I like Zobrist and he's still pretty good, but I think he's done playing, to be honest.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

Things kinda shifted under Dipoto. 

Doc did a pretty solid job of describing what the Angel Way was when MS/Maddon where here -- it was 100% about situational awareness, forcing the action, making the other team work, and potentially force mistakes.  But the thing that made it all work was the fact that it was something that had been instituted in rookie ball all the way up -- and one of the initial components to it's success was a guy named Tom Kotchman who everyone here knows.    

Dipoto didnt shift things, he put a dagger to it's throat and slashed the life out it.  One of the reasons Kotchman was asked to no longer coach was to effectively force a change in how players were being developed in their infancy.  Kotch was as big a proponent of the Angels Way and fundamental baseball as there was in the Angels pipeline and easily the most accomplished/successful manager in the entire farm system... so, gutting him was one of the key steps in JDs concerted efforts to undo everything that had been set in place when MS got here.  He also cut the MLB staff off from any contact or direction with the minor league development creating a massive disconnect.   The end result was one where guys reaching MLB weren't very good at any of the things the MLB team had been doing for more than a decade and expected them to do, creating the appearance that that sort of baseball no longer was viable.   Dipoto was one shady POS.   Meanwhile as the fanbase was busy turning on MS and the "Angel Way" the KC Royals went to back to back WS appearances playing exactly the style of baseball that had been the Angels trademark.

I welcome a return to aggressive baseball and a team willing to force the action.  Being aggressive doesn't mean making stupid mistakes -- but hopefully now that the Angels entire system is on the same page we will see less stupid and more winning.