All else being within reason, your choice?

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Ryu, along with an innings eater with a sub 4.50 ERA and either Castro or Machete 

Maybe Keuchel would do solid enough work here.   He does have the durability that is desperately needed in this rotation, and generally averages 6-6.5 innings/start. 

DO NOT trade Adell, Marsh, or Adams.

Worry with Keuchel is the AL West is extremely familiar with him, and as one of the top FA arms remaining with MIN, STL, CWS, LAD all still looking in, someone may drop a lot more money on him than is worth doing for us. 

[gotbeer]

Still on the conspiracy theory.  Space left, $34.7 million

Samardzija + cash.  1 year deal.  $19.5 million.  Hopefully with the cash it's down to $16 million.  Just look at his numbers.  

Darvish + Cash.  4 year/$81 milion left. $21 million cap hit.  If we can get it down to $15 or send $6 their way.  Gives us a 4 year reasonably priced SP.

Maldonado or trade for Zunino.  Maldonado is better than Zunino with the stick by far, but if Zunino goes back to form he will be a steal.  Defensively though, both positive dwar, with Zunino over 1 the last 2 seasons.  Zunino should not cost us much in trade, since he is a FA after this season.

[Erstad Grit]

I haven't heard anything about Salvador Perez. I'm sure durability is now a question, but would he be a possible target?

[totdprods]

Just now, Erstad Grit said:

I haven't heard anything about Salvador Perez. I'm sure durability is now a question, but would he be a possible target?

It’s been mentioned he may play more 1B this year because of his surgery so I doubt he’d be the option we seek.

[Erstad Grit]

2 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Still on the conspiracy theory.  Space left, $34.7 million

Samardzija + cash.  1 year deal.  $19.5 million.  Hopefully with the cash it's down to $16 million.  Just look at his numbers.  

Darvish + Cash.  4 year/$81 milion left. $21 million cap hit.  If we can get it down to $15 or send $6 their way.  Gives us a 4 year reasonably priced SP.

Maldonado or trade for Zunino.  Maldonado is better than Zunino with the stick by far, but if Zunino goes back to form he will be a steal.  Defensively though, both positive dwar, with Zunino over 1 the last 2 seasons.  Zunino should not cost us much in trade, since he is a FA after this season.

Samardzija and Hendricks are tow guys I have every year on my fantasy team. They're on nobody's radar and they are great. Solid 2-3 type pitchers. 

[AngelStew43]

I think we could end up with Darvish and Contreras.  We can absorb all of Darvish contract, and the cost in prospects shouldn't be prohibitive.

[Angels_Fan]

7 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Still on the conspiracy theory.  Space left, $34.7 million

Samardzija + cash.  1 year deal.  $19.5 million.  Hopefully with the cash it's down to $16 million.  Just look at his numbers.  

Darvish + Cash.  4 year/$81 milion left. $21 million cap hit.  If we can get it down to $15 or send $6 their way.  Gives us a 4 year reasonably priced SP.

Maldonado or trade for Zunino.  Maldonado is better than Zunino with the stick by far, but if Zunino goes back to form he will be a steal.  Defensively though, both positive dwar, with Zunino over 1 the last 2 seasons.  Zunino should not cost us much in trade, since he is a FA after this season.

The Angels can probably get Darvish without giving up much in return if they take on his entire salary, especially if the Cubs are really looking to cut payroll as reports suggest.

Maybe the Angels can get Contreras and Darvish in a trade centered around Marsh? They’d obviously need to add way more, but it could be a start.

[Angels_Fan]

3 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I think we could end up with Darvish and Contreras.  We can absorb all of Darvish contract, and the cost in prospects shouldn't be prohibitive.

It wouldn’t be for Darvish, but Contreras would cost a lot. 

[totdprods]

19 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also this talk about trading Canning is nuts. 

I think he’s in same boat as Fletcher. They’re not going to be traded, and if they are, it’s because they’re getting something really good back and Fletcher/Canning made up something like 75%+ of the value in the deal. 

Like, Darvish and Contreras for Canning and nothing better than a Top 20-30 prospect, or Canning+lotto ticks for Sale and Price and enough cash to bring both to $25m a year or something crazy. 

[Angel Oracle]

Forget Contreras, and focus on signing Castro or Machete.   DO NOT deal any key prospects, or talented guys already having pitched here like Canning.   

Darvish in a straight trade, with no money coming here, should very much limit what goes back to the Cubs.    Can he stay healthy though?   He and Ryu are in a similar boat.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[T.G.]

I doubt the Angel start the season with Fletcher, La Stella and Rengifo on the 25 man roster.  Something has to give.

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Angels_Fan said:

The Angels can probably get Darvish without giving up much in return if they take on his entire salary, especially if the Cubs are really looking to cut payroll as reports suggest.

Maybe the Angels can get Contreras and Darvish in a trade centered around Marsh? They’d obviously need to add way more, but it could be a start.

I’m not totally against the the idea of taking something like Price and Benintendi too, if we assume the contract. More money yes, but also one less year.

The Angels could then shop Benintendi/Goodwin for Ray, Boyd, Gray, Smith, Quintana, DeSclafani, Stroman. 

[kevinb]

I don't Maldonado. I'd prefer to trade for someone younger. 

[Stradling]

Canning isn't going to be part of a trade for a 34 year old Kluber.   I wonder if we would consider expanding the trade to include Brad Hand.  

[T.G.]

Kluber is 34?  I really had no idea.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Kluber is 34?  I really had no idea.

Yup. And Scherzer is 35, Greinke 36, Verlander 37...there’s a chance Kluber isn’t done yet. 

Opponents had a BAbip of .374 against him in 36 innings last year so could’ve just been some bad luck. 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

Also this talk about trading Canning is nuts. 

I’m split. I love Canning’s upside and contract status. I’m concerned though about his ability to stay healthy long term. If he gets moved in a trade for a controllable starter who is more reliable, I won’t cry, but I’d probably rather keep him. 

[Mark68]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

The FA market is a little stressful. Let’s assume the Angels have roughly $50-60m left for SP. That might be a bit of a stretch, but it’s realistic.

The $30m arms 

How much will Ryu get now? $30m? Since he’ll likely have a couple fewer years, a team could really pump up the AAV there which makes the Angels unlikely given the other needs. 

Price is also at $30m+ AAV unless Boston eats money, and if they eat money, we start having to chip in at least decent prospects. That makes him unlikelier. If we take his full salary though, maybe we get Benintendi or Chavis, and we don’t pay good prospects, and we could use that pool in a deal for someone relatively cheap either salary-wise, like someone like Boyd or Gray who are around $5m, or in years, like Quintana, Ray, Stroman, all around $11-13m.

The $20m+ arms 

Bumgarner’s relative youth and durability may net him more years and therefore, a lesser AAV/annual salary, and while his upside is limited and there are red flags, if he lands around 5/$110m that’s only a $22m AAV which isn’t terrible and is probably a salary that fits better for the Angels than Ryu or Price.

Kluber and Darvish are both around $20m AAV which would be a ‘sweet spot’ I would think. It should allow the Angels to still add one more SP and a catcher much more easily. 

The $15-$20m arms

The other FA SPs are making me nervous. If Roark is getting $12m AAV, Porcello $10m AAV, Lyles $8m AAV...then Keuchel is probably gonna get something closer to $20m than $15m, and depending on the years, that might be way too much to commit. Teheran probably costs comparably here too. This feels like the riskiest group to shop in, in many ways, with the greatest chance of a contract busting or a pitcher resulting in production we probably could have gotten cheaper internally or elsewhere.

Less than (or around) $10m trade arms

These guys are probably only realistic if we acquire expensive FAs (no prospects, less payroll flexibility) but will cost significant prospect capital. They’re numerous, Jon Gray, Matt Boyd, Caleb Smith, but also come with long-term control. There are FA options too but it’s likely guys such as Homer Bailey and Drew Smyly and we definitely are not at that point of desperation yet. 

And then there are the one-year pending FA types. Eppler would probably have to ‘overpay’ because frankly, they’re rentals and almost any prospect dealt away will be an overpay, but Robbie Ray, Jose Quintana, Marcus Stroman, maybe even James Paxton now? all come around a $10-$13m salary which fits in nicely with a $20-$30 arm listed above - which also works well given those arms might not cost much in prospects, while these will cost something. 

So, looking at this from a higher level, it would make sense for the Angels, I think, to try and acquire one of the $20-30m arms as they won’t cost much in prospect capital - and then dish out prospects for one of the ~$10m or less rental/long-term crowd. 

 

 

No to Paxton. Don't let the Yankees wiggle off the luxury tax hook. 

If we can somehow swing a deal for Gray, that would be great, however it would likely be too costly in prospect capital. 

Stroman maybe?

[Angelsfan1984]

Kluber, keuchel and Maldonado 

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

No to Paxton. Don't let the Yankees wiggle off the luxury tax hook. 

If we can somehow swing a deal for Gray, that would be great, however it would likely be too costly in prospect capital. 

Stroman maybe?

I'd love Gray - he could flourish and be as good as a strong #2, maybe even bordering #1. The prospect cost could be significant, but if we avoid paying prospects elsewhere (for the catcher or the other SP) then I think it might be in reach. 
Perhaps that means we sign Ryu, Keuchel, Bumgarner, or Teheran and then swing a deal for Gray, or assume Price's contract, which could bring prospects/Benintendi/Chavis for use in a Gray trade. 

Stroman would be great - only catch there is the Mets will probably try and tack on a bad contract - Lowrie, Familia, or Ramos - as he's one of the better catalyst pieces they have in triggering a salary dump, which would be tough given our other SP need.

[Mark68]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd love Gray - he could flourish and be as good as a strong #2, maybe even bordering #1. The prospect cost could be significant, but if we avoid paying prospects elsewhere (for the catcher or the other SP) then I think it might be in reach. 
Perhaps that means we sign Ryu, Keuchel, Bumgarner, or Teheran and then swing a deal for Gray, or assume Price's contract, which could bring prospects/Benintendi/Chavis for use in a Gray trade. 

Stroman would be great - only catch there is the Mets will probably try and tack on a bad contract - Lowrie, Familia, or Ramos - as he's one of the better catalyst pieces they have in triggering a salary dump, which would be tough given our other SP need.

Maybe a three-way trade can be worked with the Mets & Rockies.

We get Gray, Stroman, Story, we give Simmons (to Mets), Fletcher (to Rox), Sandoval or Suarez (to Mets), Mets give Nimmo to Rox, we get a bad reliever contract from Rox. Something along those lines.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, True Grich said:

I doubt the Angel start the season with Fletcher, La Stella and Rengifo on the 25 man roster.  Something has to give.

Only way to keep all 3 is to have Rengifo start 2020 in AAA, Stella play mainly 1B, and Fletcher play 2B regularly.

One thought on Jon Gray:  his GB/FB ratio since 2017 is pretty much 1/1, a good thing.   But, the Coors factor was NOT a hindurance, as his career home ERA is over half of a run better at home than on the road.

[UndertheHalo]

56 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

I’m split. I love Canning’s upside and contract status. I’m concerned though about his ability to stay healthy long term. If he gets moved in a trade for a controllable starter who is more reliable, I won’t cry, but I’d probably rather keep him. 

I’m not that split.  We aren’t going to get an ace. There’s no point in trading the guy.  He’s controlled, strong upside.  He might be exactly what we need as soon as this year.  It makes no sense.  If we’re talking about Snydergaard, sure.  For Kluber.  No thanks. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Pancake Bear]

4 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not that split.  We aren’t going to get an ace. There’s no point in trading the guy.  He’s controlled, strong upside.  He might be exactly what we need as soon as this year.  It makes no sense.  If we’re talking about Snydergaard, sure.  For Kluber.  No thanks. 

No chance Canning traded for Kluber. I’m thinking more a move for a Clevinger type (I don’t think he’s available). 

[Mark68]

Yeah, I would ONLY want to trade Canning for a Clevinger-type or better. Otherwise, Canning stands a good chance of being better than most other options.