Both Cole and Strasburg?

[Angel Oracle]

I'd take Wheeler over Strasburg.     Wheeler, like Cole, only turns 30 in 2020.   Strasburg will be 32 in 2020, and has only two seasons in the past five where he pitched over 150 innings, and thus making durability a question mark.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

usually the 15m for benefits isn't included when people talk about actual payroll.  For instance, this year's payroll was around 160m but that is without those benefits added.  So subtract that 15m from your 160m estimate for where we're currently at and it takes us to around 145m.  

CBA:

C. Determination of Actual Club Payroll (1) Definition of Actual Club Payroll “Actual Club Payroll” of a Club in a Contract Year shall be the sum of: (a) a 1/30th share of Player Benefit Costs (and a similar pro rata share if the number of Major League Clubs changes), as determined in Section D below; (b) the sum of the yearly Salaries (as determined in accordance with Section E below and as allocated among Clubs in accordance with this Section C) attributable to that Contract Year of all Players under a Uniform Player’s Contract with the Club for that Contract Year (including optionally assigned contracts); and (c) any other amount includible in or deductible from Actual Club Payroll as a result of the operation of Section C(2)(f) below or as a result of any Club, any Player and/or either of the Parties hereto having engaged in a transaction contrary to Section G(1) below or as a result of an award by the Arbitration Panel under Article XI and/or Section F below.

Still confused (not at you Doc, just in general about how our payroll appears to be shrinking in capacity).
 

[totdprods]

38 minutes ago, jordan said:

Just my gut, but I think if Angels land Cole, and there is a possibility of landing Strasburg, Arte will open the checkbook. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking. But I think Arte see’s this opportunity, as he is getting older, to load up on pitching and vastly improve this team.  

I could see that too - with the Angels perhaps calling it an offseason there, aside from a couple very minor moves. 

It's only possible too given the very real possibility that both simply want to be here.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, jordan said:

Just my gut, but I think if Angels land Cole, and there is a possibility of landing Strasburg, Arte will open the checkbook. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking. But I think Arte see’s this opportunity, as he is getting older, to load up on pitching and vastly improve this team.  

I dont know if thats accurate or not (who knows, maybe), but id think the part about arte getting old is going to play a role. Along with trout getting older...

Not saying arte blows his old man wad this winter, but I think he knows there arent as many shopping days left till christmas, so to speak.

That may just mean Cole. Or some other guy. But I doubt we bargain basement shop this year. He knows its not only been a real boring last few years, but also needs to get some positive news in here after the skaggs saga...

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Of course that would be cool ... but can anybody remember the pitching staff in 2002 without googling it lol @LouWho was our Ace back then Washburn?

Yes. Wash. 

Ortiz was solid as hell, appier and sele were as well.

[Chuck]

I keep hearing that Wheeler may cost more than people think, but he'll still be cheaper than Strasburg so if signing him allows us to get Cole, Wheeler and a bat, over Cole and just Strasburg, please do the needful. 

[Pancake Bear]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I keep hearing that Wheeler may cost more than people think, but he'll still be cheaper than Strasburg so if signing him allows us to get Cole, Wheeler and a bat, over Cole and just Strasburg, please do the needful. 

How much do people think?

[T.G.]

Wheeler is on every team's list...

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-wheeler-has-potential-comp-in-gerrit-cole

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Wheeler is on every team's list...

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-wheeler-has-potential-comp-in-gerrit-cole

Yup - I feel Wheeler is going to be in such high-demand he will either get really overpaid, in years or money, which the Angels should avoid, or simply be too caught up with other teams that it’s hard to see him signing here.

We’d have to hope there’s an undetermined Maddon/Calloway influence in order to make that happen I think. Which is possible.

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

We’d have to hope there’s an undetermined Maddon/Calloway influence in order to make that happen I think. Which is possible.

I'd like to believe that... but at the end of the day, he probably just wants to get paid.  I don't blame him for that.

 

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

it’s hard to see him signing here.

Yup.

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I'd like to believe that... but at the end of the day, he probably just wants to get paid.  I don't blame him for that.

Yes, but, say the Angels have Cole, Trout, Ohtani, and they’re in the ballpark with other teams offers, the Maddon/Callaway appeal could tip the scale, even if they aren’t the highest bidder. 

Still, I think too many teams will be willing to go overboard with him. Eppler will still have a like in the sand he won’t cross, like we saw last year with Happ, Corbin, Eovaldi, Ramos, Britton, Robertson...

[ScottM]

Eh. I'd rather get one of the top 3 starters on the market and someone like Ivan Nova, who you can guarantee will be healthy and pitch decent baseball. 

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

Eh. I'd rather get one of the top 3 starters on the market and someone like Ivan Nova, who you can guarantee will be healthy and pitch decent baseball. 

I get what you're saying, but a guy like Nova isn't even decent anymore. 

[ScottM]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

I get what you're saying, but a guy like Nova isn't even decent anymore. 

2 WAR per FG, plus I think there's a nonzero chance he'd have better numbers pitching in Anaheim.

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

2 WAR per FG, plus I think there's a nonzero chance he'd have better numbers pitching in Anaheim.

well, I put very little trust in WAR for pitchers. his numbers have gotten worse 3 years running. 

we have plenty of mediocre pitching for a lot less money. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

CBA:

C. Determination of Actual Club Payroll (1) Definition of Actual Club Payroll “Actual Club Payroll” of a Club in a Contract Year shall be the sum of: (a) a 1/30th share of Player Benefit Costs (and a similar pro rata share if the number of Major League Clubs changes), as determined in Section D below; (b) the sum of the yearly Salaries (as determined in accordance with Section E below and as allocated among Clubs in accordance with this Section C) attributable to that Contract Year of all Players under a Uniform Player’s Contract with the Club for that Contract Year (including optionally assigned contracts); and (c) any other amount includible in or deductible from Actual Club Payroll as a result of the operation of Section C(2)(f) below or as a result of any Club, any Player and/or either of the Parties hereto having engaged in a transaction contrary to Section G(1) below or as a result of an award by the Arbitration Panel under Article XI and/or Section F below.

Still confused (not at you Doc, just in general about how our payroll appears to be shrinking in capacity).
 

what I meant is that when we see actual payroll listed on various sites, they don't typically include the benefits.  If course the team has to pay them so it's real money going out, but as a point of reference for trying to guess what payroll will be, I am going with the number that's been consistently reported in the past as to determine how much we have to spend.  Again, in 2019 payroll was about 160m sans benefits.  About 15 mil is coming off from Calhoun likely leaving and declining arb on the guys moved out today.  putting us at 145 as the conventionally reported number.  So when people talk about Arte taking payroll to 190m, they are assuming that doesn't include benefits.  Just the raw salaries.  Therefore we've got 45m to spend if that's where it ends up.  

There are plenty of other expenses associated with payroll that people typically don't include.  I think it's only gotten confusing because they decided to include benefits in the CBT number.   The rest of those costs probably get listed on the spreadsheet as part of operational expenses etc.  They've got payroll going out to the other 800+ employees as well which we never hear about but that's a real money expense. 

As an example, liberty media owns the braves and they are publicly traded so they have financial reports they are required to disclose.  From 2018, operating expenses were list at about $348 mil.  MLB payroll is in that number somewhere.  As are their benefits etc.  

[hangin n wangin]

Ian Nova? Oh dear God. Might as well bring back Blanton.

[zenmaster]

I say we attempt to get every single free agent pitcher who is better than what we got and pray and hope that 2 of them will sign with us.

[T.G.]

I heard a Nats beat writer on mlb network radio this morning and he's pretty confident Strasburg will stay in D.C.  He does think he'll opt out, but only to renegotiate his current deal.  He said Strasburg moved his family to DC last year and they like it there.  Seems to me that if he was planning on leaving - he might not have moved his family there...

[totdprods]

As excessively expensive and unlikely this is, man, if we somehow signed both I'd be totally content if those were the only two significant moves of the offseason. Hell, it could be the only two moves they made and I'd still be thrilled - it'd be that good. 

Rotation: Cole, Strasburg, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning - with Sandoval, Barria, Suarez as depth
Bullpen: Robles, Bedrosian, Buttrey, Anderson, Middleton, Ramirez, Pena, with Cole, Peters, Bard, Jewell, Rodriguez, Madero, Ortega as depth
Lineup: Fletcher 3B, Trout CF, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, La Stella 2B, Simmons SS, Goodwin RF, Stassi C
Bench: Smith C, Cozart UT IF, Hermosillo OF, Rengifo UT IF, Thaiss C IF, and Walsh/Rojas/Ward/extra pitcher as the 26th man.

Not counting Adell either. 

Not a bad team.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

As excessively expensive and unlikely this is, man, if we somehow signed both I'd be totally content if those were the only two significant moves of the offseason. Hell, it could be the only two moves they made and I'd still be thrilled - it'd be that good. 

Rotation: Cole, Strasburg, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning - with Sandoval, Barria, Suarez as depth
Bullpen: Robles, Bedrosian, Buttrey, Anderson, Middleton, Ramirez, Pena, with Cole, Peters, Bard, Jewell, Rodriguez, Madero, Ortega as depth
Lineup: Fletcher 3B, Trout CF, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, La Stella 2B, Simmons SS, Goodwin RF, Stassi C
Bench: Smith C, Cozart UT IF, Hermosillo OF, Rengifo UT IF, Thaiss C IF, and Walsh/Rojas/Ward/extra pitcher as the 26th man.

Not counting Adell either. 

Not a bad team.

This is a consensus of the Astro's fans opinion of our chances of signing Cole:

Another reason I want the Nationals to win, The Astro fans are just so damn arrogant. They seem to forget it wasn't so long ago they were the worst team in baseball, with many 100+ loss seasons...

Edited October 30, 2019 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Lou]

we still owe Pujols  $240M ?

we're doomed 

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

This is a consensus of the Astro's fans opinion of our chances of signing Cole:

Another reason I want the Nationals to win, The Astro fans are just so damn arrogant. They seem to forget it wasn't so long ago they were the worst team in baseball, with many 100+ loss seasons...

He's a self-professed conspiracy theorist. Why would we expect him to express intelligent analysis?

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 10/29/2019 at 7:53 AM, True Grich said:

I heard a Nats beat writer on mlb network radio this morning and he's pretty confident Strasburg will stay in D.C.  He does think he'll opt out, but only to renegotiate his current deal.  He said Strasburg moved his family to DC last year and they like it there.  Seems to me that if he was planning on leaving - he might not have moved his family there...

Ive been thinking all along he stays. I think people are getting ahead of themselves thinking he will be available.

I could see him kershawing a new deal, maybe not even for that much more and telling them to retain rendon.

[Docwaukee]

even if he were to opt out, there no chance in hell the Angels get both guys.