Keep Kole!

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Uh, why? For Bedrosian?

Calhoun alone arguably isn’t worth Teheran and Markakis. 

Value wise Calhoun is worth Teheran and Markakis. Bedrosian has more value than we think.

[totdprods]

I'm not putting much stock in an internet trade simulator, @angelsnationtalk.

It's fun to play around with and a helpful tool, but those same values say the Yankees could trade Hicks and Judge (154.90) for Ohtani and Trout (155.30), or the Athletics could land La Stella and Trout (86) for Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty (86.80) (!!!!!!) 
 

Edited July 24, 2019 by totdprods

[Jay]

No need to raise your hand.

 

[Lou]

13 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Value wise Calhoun is worth Teheran and Markakis. Bedrosian has more value than we think.

lol

[totdprods]

Cam will probably land around $2.5-$3m in arb this offseason. 
Kole's salary will be $14m if the option is picked up. That's around $16-$17m.
Teheran will be $12m if his option is picked up, Markakis would be at $6m, so $18m total. 

If anything, that $1m-$2m gap would be the difference in value where Atlanta might need to kick back a prospect of some sort (probably more like a Jerez than a Buttrey), or $1m in cash. 

From the Braves' perspective, they can argue that Markakis and Calhoun are no different - offensively, they're already fairly close, and while Calhoun has a defensive edge, Markakis is $8m cheaper, so that's a wash there. 
Teheran has been durable - on pace for another 30 GS this year, and he's made 30+ every season since his first full year seven years ago in 2013. There's value in that.
In addition, his ERA is nice (3.61) but peripherals indicate some thin ice - his FIP has been 4.90 the last three years, and his BB rate is up to 4 per 9.
But, it might be wise for the Braves to cash in on Teheran now - they've gotten a ton of value out of him to date and like Calhoun, could have his option declined. 
They might lose Donaldson to FA, so it could make sense to swap out a SP, something they have a lot of prospects for, for a comparably valued RF with some plus-power to alleviate Donaldson walking, and improve defense for their young pitching.
Camargo or Riley take Donaldson's place for cheap, and his $20m goes towards a 3-4 year deal for Bumgarner, who grew up a Braves fan and would give them the Greinke-esque vet to lead a young staff and probably dominate inexplicably in the playoffs.

For the Angels...
Markakis gives the Angels basically a Kole Calhoun-lite, someone who would be a little easier to justify benching, using in a platoon-role, or pawning off midseason if his value to the team decreases. Not as much upside, but a much higher floor. Kole runs a bit of that risk still, IMO.
He's easy to bump for Adell when Adell is ready, much easier than a peak-performing Kole.
Teheran gives them a steady arm to lock down a back-end rotation spot. Maybe his peripherals catch up and he's a 4.75-5 ERA guy, which would suck, but his durability would at least give some value back - and it'd be better than Harvey/Cahill's 2019 production.
Or maybe he skirts by another year, gives them a 4.00 ERA over 30 GS, and hits FA before they worry about it catching up.

Bedrosian's inclusion would be based on the fact that Calhoun alone probably doesn't get you Teheran. Markakis is thrown in to save ATL money, and because Markakis would be displaced, and would fit an Angels need. 
Bedrosian is the additional value from the Angels to close the gaps. The Angels fill two needs - SP and temporary RF (plus a 1B Bour replacement, saving $2.5m) - without spending any of their extra money, for use on Cole, Ryu, etc.
 

[angelsnationtalk]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'm not putting much stock in an internet trade simulator, @angelsnationtalk.

It's fun to play around with and a helpful tool, but those same values say the Yankees could trade Hicks and Judge (154.90) for Ohtani and Trout (155.30), or the Athletics could land La Stella and Trout (86) for Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty (86.80) (!!!!!!) 

I'd say the "internet trade simulator" might have more analytical values than word of mouth does. I'm not saying either is right, but maybe it can be a better tool to check.

Plus Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty do add up to 86.80 but LaStella and Trout add up to 163.60 not 86....

I think the simulator is closer than we think....

[Broad Street]

I would like to see Calhoun transition to 1B to split time with Albert there, but it’s hard to justify paying $14 mil for a platoon player

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I'd say the "internet trade simulator" might have more analytical values than word of mouth does. I'm not saying either is right, but maybe it can be a better tool to check.

Plus Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty do add up to 86.80 but LaStella and Trout add up to 163.60 not 86....

I think the simulator is closer than we think....

 

[totdprods]

Hah, weird, Trout’s value has been doubled to 160 since I found that proposal I posted above.

Probably because everyone was building Trout-based deals and it broke their value system. My point still stands though...on paper the values might be close to accurate, but GMs aren’t calling each other up and saying “I’ll give you 35 value units for your 32, you win!”

Edited July 24, 2019 by totdprods

[TBailey]

I still think that unless they get someone they know they really want...they will keep Kole, and they will bring him back next season on a new and cheaper deal. 

[angelsnationtalk]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Hah, weird, Trout’s value has been doubled to 160 since I found that proposal I posted above.

Probably because everyone was building Trout-based deals and it broke their value system. My point still stands though...on paper the values might be close to accurate, but GMs aren’t calling each other up and saying “I’ll give you 35 value units for your 32, you win!”

I was noticing that cuz here is what I got. I know it's not 100% accurate. Nothing ever will be. But it is cool to see people try and make it the best they can. The people who made this seem to be people like us. Crazy about baseball who love statistical numbers. To a degree I think it makes sense. At least more sense than my head ever will.

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I was noticing that cuz here is what I got. I know it's not 100% accurate. Nothing ever will be. But it is cool to see people try and make it the best they can. The people who made this seem to be people like us. Crazy about baseball who love statistical numbers. To a degree I think it makes sense. At least more sense than my head ever will.

Yeah, my guess is every other MLB fan ran proposals to see what it'd take to land Trout...sometimes even Ohtani. 
And the results were 'realistic' enough to get them ramped up into believing the accuracy. So the site had to make Trout nearly unattainable. 

Because if you could whip up a proposal of Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty to get Mike Trout based on value units, that shit's broken.

I think it also said the Angels could get Zach Wheeler at the cost of only one Jaime Barria.

Edited July 24, 2019 by totdprods

[angelsnationtalk]

37 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Yeah, my guess is every other MLB fan ran proposals to see what it'd take to land Trout...sometimes even Ohtani. 
And the results were 'realistic' enough to get them ramped up into believing the accuracy. So the site had to make Trout nearly unattainable. 

Because if you could whip up a proposal of Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty to get Mike Trout based on value units, that shit's broken.

I think it also said the Angels could get Zach Wheeler at the cost of only one Jaime Barria.

Barria (6.3) and Wheeler (11.2). Would need to throw in Taylor Cole (5.1) or players like LaStella (3.6) and Kruger (1.3) to match Wheeler. 

trade would be Barria and Cole for Wheeler OR

Barria, LaStella and Kruger for Wheeler. It seems decent at least....

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I'm not putting much stock in an internet trade simulator, @angelsnationtalk.

It's fun to play around with and a helpful tool, but those same values say the Yankees could trade Hicks and Judge (154.90) for Ohtani and Trout (155.30), or the Athletics could land La Stella and Trout (86) for Barreto, Laureano, and Piscotty (86.80) (!!!!!!) 
 

Well I will say this... the A's are way ahead of us in the standings now...

[floplag]

Ive learned or been reminded of 2 things in this thread.
#1 the trade calculator is whack and im glad i never looked at it.
#2 we have proven beyond shadow of dount that we have the memory of a canary around here.
Kole had a great night, hes playing well right now, but it changes nothing long term.  If anything it helps us if we decide to deal him but thats about all.

[jgimondo]

10 hours ago, Fregosi said:

He's a good teammate and I like seeing the way he and his teammates interact.  While the defense has always been stellar, he's turned it around with the bat.  Yeah he's gonna get $14MM next year.  Adell has been tearing the minors up but he's still an unknown bat in the Majors.  I say keep Kole one more year.  

He is not worth $14M , he bats .240

[Taylor]

Keep Kole!

 

Unless he can be packaged for a SP.

[nate]

The appearance of a trade simulator and a "player X should play 1b" in the same thread.  Peak AW.

Where is AO with a nickname when you need him?

[UndertheHalo]

Unless they can get something substantial for him, and that seems unlikely.  They might as well keep him for the rest of the season.  I think it’s hard to make good arguments for picking up the option for next season though.  They need the roster spot and they need the money. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Lou]

11 minutes ago, nate said:

The appearance of a trade simulator and a "player X should play 1b" in the same thread.  Peak AW.

Where is AO with a nickname when you need him?

Ha. Has the term "ace" made an appearance yet? 

[nate]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ha. Has the term "ace" made an appearance yet? 

Superstar ace

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, nate said:

Superstar ace

That's the AW cycle 

[Jason]

Anyone who's name isn't spelled TROUT is tradeable if the value is good and makes the team better. 

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, Fregosi said:

He's a good teammate and I like seeing the way he and his teammates interact.  While the defense has always been stellar, he's turned it around with the bat.  Yeah he's gonna get $14MM next year.  Adell has been tearing the minors up but he's still an unknown bat in the Majors.  I say keep Kole one more year.  

In that case we need to trade Adell.  We really cant keep both.

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, RBM said:

Kole will not be traded this year. He has too much value to this team.

Kole will not have his $14 M option picked up for next year. He has too little value to the future team.

It’s the business of baseball. 

I’ve followed Kole since he played for my Sun Devils and he’s one of my favorite all time Angels but the team will be better next year using his $14 M on starting pitching.

 

So you lose him and get nothing in return.  We have won 11 of last 16 I believe and we have gained a grand total of .5 game.  What value is he going to give us?