Keep Kole!

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

At least keep him this season, then exercise the option, and if there is a pitcher out there on a team needing an experienced and solid RF, then they could trade him and if necessary send enough of the 2020 salary with him.

14 million makes it difficult to sign pitching 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, jgimondo said:

He is not worth $14M , he bats .240

This is a good post from 2003.

[mulwin444]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

This is a good post from 2003.

[Angel Oracle]

17 minutes ago, stormngt said:

14 million makes it difficult to sign pitching 

That's why I said to include part of Calhoun's salary in an off-season trade.    That plus existing space under tax threshold plus freeing up nearly $30 million from Harvey/Cahill/Allen = enough to sign Cole, someone like Machete, and maybe one late innings guy.

[Taylor]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

This is a good post from 2003.

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

im qouting this just because @Jeff Fletcher put it perfectly and this is the best gif ive seen in a while for a burn. 

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, jgimondo said:

He is not worth $14M , he bats .240

With a solid .811 OPS (39th in the AL) and good defense

[stormngt]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

That's why I said to include part of Calhoun's salary in an off-season trade.    That plus existing space under tax threshold plus freeing up nearly $30 million from Harvey/Cahill/Allen = enough to sign Cole, someone like Machete, and maybe one late innings guy.

We are not making the playoffs as is.  Our pitching depth is gone and not good enough.  We only gained half a game despite winning 11 of 17.

Why pay any of that 14 million.  

The only reason we should hang on to him is if no one is offering anything of value  

[mulwin444]

23 minutes ago, stormngt said:

14 million makes it difficult to sign pitching 

Says who?  If they exercise his option, that would be 6 guys under contract for 2020 (Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons, Cozart and Calhoun) with only Trout, Pujols, and Upton signed 2021 and onward.  They have a lot of financial flexibility even if they re-sign Simmons with Cozart and Calhoun off the books in 2021 and everyone else Arb or pre-Arb.

Exercising Calhoun's option doesn't prevent them from going in full on Cole and a another starter.

[yamsi12]

Trade Kole. 

Get what you can.

Stay the course.

[mulwin444]

Just now, RBM said:

Here are the numbers:

If they pick up Calhoun's option they have $23 M.

If they don't they have $36 M.

They have the ability to sign whoever they want to sign and they have said in the past that they would exceed whatever seemingly self-imposed limitations they've referenced previously for the right player(s).  Cole plus another starter would fit in to that.  They've already given Trout the richest contract in history and are two years away from being free of Pujols...do you think one season of exceeding the budget is going to stop them?

[UndertheHalo]

43 minutes ago, stormngt said:

So you lose him and get nothing in return.  We have won 11 of last 16 I believe and we have gained a grand total of .5 game.  What value is he going to give us?  

This pretty perfectly sums up the sobering reality of the Angels situation.  They could win 85 games or more and still not get the wild card.  If there’s a good trade to be had for Calhoun then they should do it.  It just seems unlikely that trade is out there.  There’s not really a lot of point to trading him for some random 45 grade prospect.  Might as well just roll the dice and see how the summer goes with him. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[totdprods]

22 minutes ago, RBM said:

I like this from our perspective but I don't see the team options working out.

Will the Braves take on $14 M for Calhoun? He won't get that much in FA.

It's more likely Markakis would get his option salary of $6 M and Teheran would likely get a two year deal in FA so the Braves may be inclined to pick up both options.

Except it doesn't really matter what they'd get in FA, because they wouldn't be free agents. It would be if Atlanta values them for what they bring. 
The question is what does it cost for them to replace that production via FA. 

Josh Donaldson is set to hit FA again, clearing $23m, which they will almost definitely put towards some pitching due to their young pitchers flopping a bit this year.
The Braves arguably don't need to re-sign him - they can either move Austin Riley or Johan Camargo to 3B for league minimum, or Riley stays in LF.
Riley might produce similarly moving back to 3B (.805 OPS, 100 OPS+), but it's a good bet they lose some offensive production with Donaldson walking. 
Markakis will be 36, and his offense has regressed minimally this year, down to a .793 OPS, 102 OPS+
Donaldson, for his part, is rocking a .900 OPS, 127 OPS+, 22 doubles, 23 HR, and good defense. Kole is at 18 doubles, 22 HR, .810 OPS, 112 OPS+, and great defense. He's a good bet to 'replace' Donaldson, to a slightly lesser degree.
The Braves could effectively 'replace' Donaldson by putting Calhoun in RF for one-year and getting a boost in RF power and defense. That's $9m saved for them right there, between Josh's $23m and Kole's $14m.
Markakis going back to Anaheim saves them another $6m, so in that regard, they're saving $15m already in the deal to use for pitching. 
And then there's Teheran. They shed his $12m, bringing it $27m in savings. It allows them to start working in AAA SP prospects into his rotation slot, and gives the Braves the money necessary to go after top target Bumgarner, or Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi, etc. to replace Teheran as their vet 'staff ace'. 

The Angels, on the other side, get one of the the durable SP they so badly need for a reasonable 1-yr, $12m deal - essentially just replacing Calhoun's salary. One year deal. Low risk. Trade bait in July. 
Markakis can start the year in RF if Adell isn't ready (which I'm convinced is becoming a plausible option) as a $6m Calhoun-lite option. 
Once Adell displaces him, Markakis can replace Justin Bour's at-bats at 1B (saves the Angels $2.5m) and DH when Ohtani is pitching, keeping Bert at 1B, where he hits better.
In addition, Markakis can pick up work in LF/RF as needed - which could spell the end of a Brian Goodwin (who is arb eligible this offseason, and likely to make at least $1m) as our 4th OF, as Adell can be the back-up CF for Trout.
By cutting Bour and Goodwin, that's another $3.5m saved, bringing Markakis' cost as a Calhoun-lite replacement down essentially to $2.5m. 
Bedrosian is the value back to Atlanta to drive them to make the deal - and he'd free up another $2-3m for the Angels to use towards a top SP target. 

Granted, the money added for the Angels in this deal doesn't give them that easy $14m from declining Calhoun - but it does allow them to essentially acquire a useful arm without giving up an prospects, essentially a Calhoun for Teheran, and gives them Adell insurance in the form of a Calhoun-lite, without adding anything really. Pretty good deal.

Edited July 24, 2019 by totdprods

[stormngt]

12 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Says who?  If they exercise his option, that would be 6 guys under contract for 2020 (Trout, Pujols, Upton, Simmons, Cozart and Calhoun) with only Trout, Pujols, and Upton signed 2021 and onward.  They have a lot of financial flexibility even if they re-sign Simmons with Cozart and Calhoun off the books in 2021 and everyone else Arb or pre-Arb.

Exercising Calhoun's option doesn't prevent them from going in full on Cole and a another starter.

Common sense.  14 million fir Kole is 14 million less they can spend.  

[mulwin444]

Just now, stormngt said:

Common sense.  14 million fir Kole is 14 million less they can spend.  

No, it's just $14 million less spent on guys named Kole Calhoun but, whatever....we're not privy to the Angels budget strategy for 2020 onward only what they've said in the past - that they'd spend for the right players.  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

I don't think "Cole plus another starter would fit into that". It's $23 M.

We will need $35 M to $40 M to sign Cole and another starting pitcher.

Backload Cole's contract 

[mulwin444]

Just now, RBM said:

I don't think "Cole plus another starter would fit into that". It's $23 M.

We will need $35 M to $40 M to sign Cole and another starting pitcher. 

I do think paying Calhoun $14 M next year is an overpay and a bad business decision. He won't make close to that much in FA. I don't think Eppler will do it.

I do think many of us want to keep Calhoun for sentimental reasons. Place me at the top of the list. I've followed him since he was at ASU. He is one of my favorite Angels players but this is the business of baseball.

Cole plus another pitcher (that you'd want) won't fit into $23 mil which is why they'll spend closer to $35 to $40 mil.

I don't think they'll exercise his option either, unless they intend to trade him in the offseason, but I don't think exercising his option will prevent them from spending $35-$40 million either if needed.

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, RBM said:

We will need $35 M to $40 M to sign Cole and another starting pitcher. 

This is why I think ultimately we'll be trading for an arm this next week or in the winter. 
Rojas, Walsh, and Ward are hitting out of their goddamn minds right now, with limited at-bats for them in the bigs. 

And as much as we like him, Marsh is expendable and basically a Top 100 talent that checks all the boxes of becoming an elite prospect very soon. 
Adell, Upton, Trout...we have more than enough short-term. Lund, Hermosillo, Martinez can bridge the depth gap until Knowles, Deveaux, Adams, Sala, Rivas, Uceta come along a year or two later.

[totdprods]

24 minutes ago, RBM said:

Agreed. 100%.

My thought was I don't think Atlanta values Kole as a $14 M player. They resigned Markakis this year for $4 M.

Markakis was a lot older and a little too different from Kole to really compare their cost. 

RF available via free agency this offseason:

• Melky Cabrera
• Nick Castellanos
• Lonnie Chisenhall
• Avisail Garcia
• Carlos Gomez
• Carlos Gonzalez
• Curtis Granderson
• Matt Kemp
• Gerardo Parra
• Hunter Pence
• Yasiel Puig

CF and LF aren't much better - Marcell Ozuna, Brett Gardner, Derek Dietrich, Corey Dickerson, Adam Jones...

In many ways Kole could be the best OF available this winter in FA if he finishes the year strong, and from an all-around perspective.

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This is why I think ultimately we'll be trading for an arm this next week or in the winter. 

Bold prediction.

 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Bold prediction.

 

Instead of signing two. 

We can't.

[Duren, Duren]

Ironic that Kole and the team are getting hot just before the deadline.

Kind of tends to make you overvalue what you have. And the optimism diminishes the negatives that precededed it.

Eppler needs to remain calm, cool, collected. And evaluate the present as well as the future. And not get either too carried away in either direction. 

He should be more passive than proactive, and let other teams initiate any trade talks. As it stands, with Kole remaining around the same pace the rest of the year the Angels have a slim, but not impossible shot at the WC. 

Kole is a fan favorite, a steady franchise asset, and has not reached the critical curve of age deterioration. As such he should either bring back equivalent talent in a trade or still remain oroductive. His contract is pretty much fair value if you project 25 homers and doubles, strong defense and solid team presence. Probably of more value to the Angels at that price than elsewhere because he is a known commodity and likely to remain in a comfort zone.

It"s tempting to think he could bring in a juicy return, and if so, then he is tradeable. But if the deal isn't stacked in the Angels favor, then play out the season, see how it goes and reconsider the options for the future.

Ideally I'd like Kole for two more years beyond now. At a somewhat more team friendly number. Sacrifice of some money for term security. It would make Adell's entry less pressurized and allow for experimentation at different positions. 

Tough call, but I still am sentimental for loyalty, even if it brings more risks.

[T.G.]

36 minutes ago, Duren, Duren said:

Eppler needs to remain calm, cool, collected. And evaluate the present as well as the future. And not get either too carried away in either direction. 

He should be more passive than proactive, and let other teams initiate any trade talks. As it stands, with Kole remaining around the same pace the rest of the year the Angels have a slim, but not impossible shot at the WC.

No offense, but I find it really, really, really funny that any fan (not just you) would suggest what Eppler should be doing at this point in time.  I know it's just your opinion - but it hit me funny because it was so specific.  Again, nothing personal.  It just made me laugh a bit.

[Lou]

I think that was personal

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, jgimondo said:

He is not worth $14M , he bats .240

The league average is .248

The days of average players having a BA north of .270 are long gone.