Angels and Marlins match up well for a trade

[angelsnationtalk]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don’t think you risk moving Adams until you see what you’re gonna get with Adell and Marsh at the bigs, unless you have to move him as a centerpiece in a win-now deal that is major impact to the MLB club. Don’t think they need to rush him either.

I still think Knowles is gonna fly up the charts this year. Deveaux looking  promising early too.

Lund is hitting well recently and he also would be a solid 4th OF. Torii Hunter should grow into a decent glove/baserunning-first option still. Spencer Griffin is doing really, really well of late and could be in the 4th OF mix soon too. And I figure Fletcher and Rengifo could see a little more time in the future too, especially if the infield starts getting crowded. Lots of options. Parker and Goodwin too!

That's a good point. Definitely would love Trout, Adell, Marsh Adams staying together. That's one crazy fast outfield. I'm hoping Knowles and Deveaux work their way up quickly. 

i think the infield is more of a logjam at this point. Fletcher, Rengifo, and LaStella have all been proving they deserve the spot with Rengifo being the guy to be sent down. Next year will be extremely interesting with Ward, Thaiss and Walsh looking for some playing time next season. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Out of the group posted I would be interested in Jordan Yamamoto and Caleb Smith  from the Marlins. 

I would also move the likes of a Thaiss, Jones, Ward, pick an OF'er maybe Lund (not named Adell/Marsh) and add in a low level arm.

 

***Side Note*** 

While perusing our Top 30 Prospects I noticed this old looking dude near the bottom! William English looks like a 35+ year old in the photo on MLB.com Prospect Watch.... What's his Dominican/Cuban Age?   http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=ana

[Mark68]

2 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Out of the group posted I would be interested in Jordan Yamamoto and Caleb Smith  from the Marlins. 

I would also move the likes of a Thaiss, Jones, Ward, pick an OF'er maybe Lund (not named Adell/Marsh) and add in a low level arm.

 

***Side Note*** 

While perusing our Top 30 Prospects I noticed this old looking dude near the bottom! William English looks like a 35+ year old in the photo on MLB.com Prospect Watch.... What's his Dominican/Cuban Age?   http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=ana

He's Rickey Henderson.

[ettin]

On 6/26/2019 at 1:54 PM, Angelsjunky said:

^That ad to the right is distracting, Chuck. What is your browser algorithm picking out for you, ad-wise?

It's just naturally picking out the cookies on his computer.

[Stradling]

5 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Out of the group posted I would be interested in Jordan Yamamoto and Caleb Smith  from the Marlins. 

I would also move the likes of a Thaiss, Jones, Ward, pick an OF'er maybe Lund (not named Adell/Marsh) and add in a low level arm.

 

***Side Note*** 

While perusing our Top 30 Prospects I noticed this old looking dude near the bottom! William English looks like a 35+ year old in the photo on MLB.com Prospect Watch.... What's his Dominican/Cuban Age?   http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2019?list=ana

High school kid drafted last year, so he is 18, turns 19 in December but yea, he looks old.

[arch stanton]

Isn’t English from Detroit? Maybe he got hold of some of that Flint water 

[totdprods]

Can't stop thinking about the possibilities here....they have one corner infielder in their Top 30, James Nelson at #20, and he's a 15th Rounder hitting .194/.259/.270/.529. 
Their AAA corner infielders are a 35-year old catcher, a UT IF, and a player who just signed in Japan (Yangervis Solarte), and corner outfielders covering. 
AA? They don't even anyone listed as a 1B/3B.

Even if guys like Alcantara, Yamamota, Gallen, Richards, Smith are out of touch because of the MLB successes they're having this year, the Angels should be able to turn towards guys like Elieser Hernandez (30 IP, 26 H, 8 BB, 34 K as starter/reliever in MLB, and a 1.12 ERA in 9 GS at AAA with 69 K in 49 IP) and Jeff Brigham (2.36 ERA in 17 GS, 95 IP, 82 H, 22 BB, 94 K in AA/AAA last year, but pitching in relief this year) and offer up some combo of Ward, Thaiss, Rojas, Walsh, Hermosillo, Lund, and land both a SP and a potential long-term relief option. 

Hernandez was plucked from the Astros as a Rule 5 pick last year and posted great numbers in their system. He's only 24.

Both have three options too, and the flexibility to work in rotation or pen depending on how things shake out over the next couple years.

Further, arms like Robert Dugger (3.31 ERA in 13 GS, 57 H, 21 BB, 73 K in 70.2 IP) and Cody Poteet (2.25 ERA in 13 GS, 63 H, 19 BB, 3 HR, 58 K in 84 IP) have done well in AA and recently moved to AAA. 

Nick Neidert has been awful and hurt this season, but could be an interesting long-term roll of the dice option too.

Yamamota or Gallen would be the ideal targets I think - but there's a whole host of arms here, both rotation and bullpen, that'd help the Angels, and the Marlins too look like they're going to experience a Rule 5/40-man roster crunch this winter with most of these guys. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

I keep reading these and thinking, where is the impact?  Why make a trade for another possible prospect?  Dont we have enough of those?  If were planning to actually compete in the next couple of years we kinda need someone ready now, or damned close to it .   We dont need more projects in my view, we need some actual production. 
The only exception would be shifting from areas we have depth, to those we dont, that makes sense, but losing key pieces without getting ml caliber return seems counter productive to me unless were not as close as we think we are. 

[totdprods]

55 minutes ago, floplag said:

I keep reading these and thinking, where is the impact?  Why make a trade for another possible prospect?  Dont we have enough of those?  If were planning to actually compete in the next couple of years we kinda need someone ready now, or damned close to it .   We dont need more projects in my view, we need some actual production. 
The only exception would be shifting from areas we have depth, to those we dont, that makes sense, but losing key pieces without getting ml caliber return seems counter productive to me unless were not as close as we think we are. 

LOL.

First, it's an exchange of redundant pieces for both teams, hopefully mutually benefiting both teams. They need some hitting prospects, we need some pitching prospects.
Also, prospects are cheap when it comes to money...allowing them to spend more on guys like Cole, Wheeler, Ryu, Rendon, whatever the flavor winds up being, or it gives you a deeper pool to deal from. 
Maybe Ward/Thaiss don't get you started on a deal for Stroman, but with another SP prospect acquired, you can turn and offer something like Barria/Yan and get things done, without compromising your pitching depth too much. 

And it's not like these guys aren't producing in the bigs...seven guys right here who have done well in the bigs this year, before Sanchez, Neidert, Garrett, Cabrera, Poteet, Dugger, Rogers, Holloway, or Guzman have even needed to throw an MLB pitch.

• Yamamoto: 5 GS, 1.24 ERA, 29 IP, 11 H, 15 BB, 30 K
• Gallen: 3 GS, 4.50 ERA, 12 IP, 12 H, 5 BB, 16 K
• Hernandez: 7 G/5 GS, 4.25 ERA, 29.2 IP, 26 H, 8 BB, 34 K
• Alcantara: 17 GS, 3.82 ERA, 101.1 IP, 95 H, 47 BB, 70 K 
• Richards: 18 GS, 4.18 ERA, 99 IP, 88 H, 45 BB, 88 K
• Smith: 13 GS, 3.50 ERA, 72 IP, 52 H, 21 BB, 88 K
• Lopez: 14 GS, 4.23 ERA, 76.2 IP, 68 H, 18 BB, 73 K

Any one of them would be doing more for us than Thaiss/Ward, Hermosillo/Lund, or Walsh/Rojas/Jones currently are, and with whoever is left, plus, Fletcher/Rengifo and Cozart/La Stella (eventually), we'd be okay.
In the short-term, they'd fill a spot in the rotation and not cost much money, allowing us to pursue Gerrit Cole with an open wallet, or a couple mid-tier arms, or perhaps Rendon/Smoak/Kendrick (I chose a top, mid, and low)
In the near-future, once Madero, Bradish, Ortega, Wantz, Soriano, Yan, Rodriguez start coming along, then they (or Barria, Suarez, Sandoval) become trade bait to fill any need we lost perhaps when dealing hitters, or slide to the bullpen. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

LOL.

First, it's an exchange of redundant pieces for both teams, hopefully mutually benefiting both teams. They need some hitting prospects, we need some pitching prospects.
Also, prospects are cheap when it comes to money...allowing them to spend more on guys like Cole, Wheeler, Ryu, Rendon, whatever the flavor winds up being, or it gives you a deeper pool to deal from. 
Maybe Ward/Thaiss don't get you started on a deal for Stroman, but with another SP prospect acquired, you can turn and offer something like Barria/Yan and get things done, without compromising your pitching depth too much. 

And it's not like these guys aren't producing in the bigs...seven guys right here who have done well in the bigs this year, before Sanchez, Neidert, Garrett, Cabrera, Poteet, Dugger, Rogers, Holloway, or Guzman have even needed to throw an MLB pitch.

• Yamamoto: 5 GS, 1.24 ERA, 29 IP, 11 H, 15 BB, 30 K
• Gallen: 3 GS, 4.50 ERA, 12 IP, 12 H, 5 BB, 16 K
• Hernandez: 7 G/5 GS, 4.25 ERA, 29.2 IP, 26 H, 8 BB, 34 K
• Alcantara: 17 GS, 3.82 ERA, 101.1 IP, 95 H, 47 BB, 70 K 
• Richards: 18 GS, 4.18 ERA, 99 IP, 88 H, 45 BB, 88 K
• Smith: 13 GS, 3.50 ERA, 72 IP, 52 H, 21 BB, 88 K
• Lopez: 14 GS, 4.23 ERA, 76.2 IP, 68 H, 18 BB, 73 K

It seems like making a deal just to make a deal... trading similar numbers for similar numbers and swapping spare parts.    There is no impact.  Its creative im not knocking that i just dont see where this benefits us that much is all. 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, floplag said:

It seems like making a deal just to make a deal... trading similar numbers for similar numbers and swapping spare parts.    There is no impact.  Its creative im not knocking that i just dont see where this benefits us that much is all. 

How can you say there is no impact when we're struggling to fill 2/5ths of the rotation, and the pieces being swapped aren't contributing to the majors? 

All of these arms are in the majors for Miami, and contributing, albeit in small sample sizes, and they have more right behind them. 

On it's own, yeah, a Ward, Jones, Lund, Madero deal for Elieser Hernandez and Nick Anderson doesn't seem very exciting, but when you consider what it does for...

• the rotation: immediately fills a spot to help 2019, and creates a surplus for 2020 with Ohtani returning, a definite FA signee, and Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria all officially having graduated or being ready to graduate. 
• the payroll: you've filled the unfortunately vacated rotation and roster spot of Tyler Skaggs with a player making $500k and 5-6 years of control, instead of 1-yr and several million that Tyler commanded, allowing you to really throw money at Gerrit Cole.
• the upcoming 40-man crunch: Jones and Lund all need to be added and we're already full-up. 
• the bullpen: you add another high-lev arm in Anderson to match with Buttrey, Robles, Anderson, Middleton, and Bedrosian(!?) that also comes with options.
• the lineup: by dipping into the IF surplus, you open up playing time in '20 for La Stella, Rengifo, Cozart, Fletcher, Thaiss, Walsh, Rojas, and can also use that money or playing time to bring in a stopgap vet if needed - Kendrick?

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

How can you say there is no impact when we're struggling to fill 2/5ths of the rotation, and the pieces being swapped aren't contributing to the majors? 

All of these arms are in the majors for Miami, and contributing, albeit in small sample sizes, and they have more right behind them. 

On it's own, yeah, a Ward, Jones, Lund, Madero deal for Elieser Hernandez and Nick Anderson doesn't seem very exciting, but when you consider what it does for...

• the rotation: immediately fills a spot to help 2019, and creates a surplus for 2020 with Ohtani returning, a definite FA signee, and Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria all officially having graduated or being ready to graduate. 
• the payroll: you've filled the unfortunately vacated rotation and roster spot of Tyler Skaggs with a player making $500k and 5-6 years of control, instead of 1-yr and several million that Tyler commanded, allowing you to really throw money at Gerrit Cole.
• the upcoming 40-man crunch: Jones and Lund all need to be added and we're already full-up. 
• the bullpen: you add another high-lev arm in Anderson to match with Buttrey, Robles, Anderson, Middleton, and Bedrosian(!?) that also comes with options.
• the lineup: by dipping into the IF surplus, you open up playing time in '20 for La Stella, Rengifo, Cozart, Fletcher, Thaiss, Walsh, Rojas, and can also use that money or playing time to bring in a stopgap vet if needed - Kendrick?

Because i would like to see guys plugged in with ERAs not in the 4+ range?
We dont need fillers, we need impact.  Fillers we have.
I dont know many of those names, admittedly, but the numbers you posted didnt exactl,y blow me away, perhaps they are better than that... i just dont see the meat to go with those potatoes.  

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Because i would like to see guys plugged in with ERAs not in the 4+ range?
We dont need fillers, we need impact.  Fillers we have.
I dont know many of those names, admittedly, but the numbers you posted didnt exactl,y blow me away, perhaps they are better than that... i just dont see the meat to go with those potatoes.  

Better than Harvey, Cahill, and recently, Pena. Those dudes have ERA around 7 in recent weeks. 4+ is a huge upgrade, and yes, there’s room to grow. And again, other positive effects that domino from it. 

Especially if Ward, Thaiss, and other expendable prospects aren’t going to get us another impact arm, which seems unlikely.

Do you want impact? Do you want Gerrit Cole? Shrewd improvements like these help enable you to get impact like Gerrit Cole by freeing up dollars. We probably aren’t getting big impact with the prospects we’re willing to deal, so this is the next best thing to lead us on that path.

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Better than Harvey, Cahill, and recently, Pena. Those dudes have ERA around 7 in recent weeks. 4+ is a huge upgrade, and yes, there’s room to grow. And again, other positive effects that domino from it. 

Especially if Ward, Thaiss, and other expendable prospects aren’t going to get us another impact arm, which seems unlikely.

Do you want impact? Do you want Gerrit Cole? Shrewd improvements like these help enable you to get impact like Gerrit Cole by freeing up dollars. We probably aren’t getting big impact with the prospects we’re willing to deal, so this is the next best thing to lead us on that path.

my dogs turn in the yard would be better than ?Harvey/Cahill have been, but i dont think trading assets just for that reason is good when we can probably get that in FA.  
Its not a bad idea, i just want something substantial, we need something substantial, and i dont want to move a bunch of assets around without getting it 

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

my dogs turn in the yard would be better than ?Harvey/Cahill have been, but i dont think trading assets just for that reason is good when we can probably get that in FA.  
Its not a bad idea, i just want something substantial, we need something substantial, and i dont want to move a bunch of assets around without getting it 

I see the Angels needing the following, in order or importance, between this deadline and this offseason, in order to compete in 2020 - and years ahead:

• a frontline arm
• a mid-tier vet arm, or additional legitimate mid-rotation MLB-ready SP depth
• Another dynamic, high-lev relief arm with options
• the following I feel are a little more optional.
• a corner infielder
•  catcher

Cole is the clear choice but his price tag makes the remaining needs difficult to fill, especially at even an MLB-average level. This trade would be a precursor to rambling Cole (or whomever the next target is) that also fills needs two and three.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Can't stop thinking about the possibilities here....they have one corner infielder in their Top 30, James Nelson at #20, and he's a 15th Rounder hitting .194/.259/.270/.529. 
Their AAA corner infielders are a 35-year old catcher, a UT IF, and a player who just signed in Japan (Yangervis Solarte), and corner outfielders covering. 
AA? They don't even anyone listed as a 1B/3B.

Even if guys like Alcantara, Yamamota, Gallen, Richards, Smith are out of touch because of the MLB successes they're having this year, the Angels should be able to turn towards guys like Elieser Hernandez (30 IP, 26 H, 8 BB, 34 K as starter/reliever in MLB, and a 1.12 ERA in 9 GS at AAA with 69 K in 49 IP) and Jeff Brigham (2.36 ERA in 17 GS, 95 IP, 82 H, 22 BB, 94 K in AA/AAA last year, but pitching in relief this year) and offer up some combo of Ward, Thaiss, Rojas, Walsh, Hermosillo, Lund, and land both a SP and a potential long-term relief option. 

Hernandez was plucked from the Astros as a Rule 5 pick last year and posted great numbers in their system. He's only 24.

Both have three options too, and the flexibility to work in rotation or pen depending on how things shake out over the next couple years.

Further, arms like Robert Dugger (3.31 ERA in 13 GS, 57 H, 21 BB, 73 K in 70.2 IP) and Cody Poteet (2.25 ERA in 13 GS, 63 H, 19 BB, 3 HR, 58 K in 84 IP) have done well in AA and recently moved to AAA. 

Nick Neidert has been awful and hurt this season, but could be an interesting long-term roll of the dice option too.

Yamamota or Gallen would be the ideal targets I think - but there's a whole host of arms here, both rotation and bullpen, that'd help the Angels, and the Marlins too look like they're going to experience a Rule 5/40-man roster crunch this winter with most of these guys. 

while I see what you're saying from a practical standpoint, let's talk about the philosophy behind a rebuilding team and their willingness and motivation to trade.  

at this point, they're in a mode where they want as many prospects as they can get.  they otherwise don't have a need.  so why would they exchange prospects?  The only reason would be that they feel like their return is better than what they have.  It's why teams don't exchange prospects all that often.  And even when they do, It's almost never that there's a rebuilding team involved.  

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

while I see what you're saying from a practical standpoint, let's talk about the philosophy behind a rebuilding team and their willingness and motivation to trade.  

at this point, they're in a mode where they want as many prospects as they can get.  they otherwise don't have a need.  so why would they exchange prospects?  The only reason would be that they feel like their return is better than what they have.  It's why teams don't exchange prospects all that often.  And even when they do, It's almost never that there's a rebuilding team involved.  

I don't disagree with any of that - you're 100% right, but I do think there's a few extenuating circumstances in play for both teams here that could allow something to match up - the primary reasons above all being 1) the surplus of Angels infielders 2) the surplus of Marlins pitching and 3) the 40-man roster crunch both teams are due for. It's part of why I never thought of Miami in the first place, but now, looking further, could see some potential. 

First, Miami's pitchers likely discussed are not on par with that of say, San Diego or Atlanta - it's not like what's being proposed is a a 'real prospect' (a team's Top 10 or an MLBTop 100) swap like Adell for Paddack or Marsh for Ryan Weathers - most of these Marlins arms are pretty unheralded, most on par maybe at best with Patrick Sandoval. 

Second, as mentioned earlier, the Marlins ain't got shit working for them at the corners at AAA, AA, or even A+, not much in their top 30, and even the marquee hitting prospects they do have have either stalled (Sierra, Brinson), underwhelmed (Alfaro), or yet to impact the bigs (Diaz, Harrison), and again, aren't on the corners. They won't be attracting FA either - and they've always had that problem. There is a long-term need here. 

Lastly, I get back to the 40-man crunch for both teams. Sanchez, Neidert and Dugger need to be added, Stewart, Poteet, Mejia and Beggs are likely in that mix, and that's just counting their starting pitchers! Many are in their Top 30. Bugg, Mahan, Torres are other candidates on the fringe, and they're a reliever and two mid-infielders - again, no one for the corners. There simply isn't room for all of these SPs on the 40-man, even with AAA/bullpen as an option - even if they wanted to keep every single one. All are under control for multiple years. With La Stella likely sticking around for 2020 as a result of his injury, Cozart's likely presence, the emergence of Fletcher and Rengifo, and the strong, unexpected play of Rojas and Walsh, the Angels have a dearth of corner infielders (without even mentioning Thaiss, Ward, and Pujols) and a 40-man roster that will experience a crunch similar to the Marlins and their SP. 

I'm probably expanding it way out of reality - multiple players for multiple players isn't happening - but it was meant to stress the number of options it could go. 

Ward for Hernandez would be a good deal for both clubs, and like I said last post, I like how it sets up the Angels to make other moves this offseason.
Hernandez wasn't protected by the Astros once already (we've mined their system many times before), has versatility in the pen and rotation, and Eppler has his Yankee connects in Miami. 
The peripherals and stuff suggest he could be Felix Pena 2.0 safely - not a huge impact, but certainly useful, capable of making turns in the rotation or ceding to a multi-inning role in the pen as others push him out.
Ward's increasingly losing ground on where he can play, with Thaiss learning third, Adell vaulting in to OF, La Stella appearing, and Rengifo and Fletcher serving as solid options in duress as well. 
He has upside to gamble on still though, but will best realize it with regular playing time - give him 1B or LF in Miami and 500-1000 PA for a year or two, and he might match up well with someone like Brian Anderson to give them enough at the corners as Diaz, Harrison, etc. settle.
Neither have produced enough at the big-league level to have it hurt too bad. It'd be a good opportunity for both players and clubs.

Before we lost Tyler, I felt the Angels needed to try and bring in two SPs before 2020 - either one high-impact, frontline guy and another cheap, controlled #4-#5 type that had some hope of upside (be it a project like Wacha or another Sandoval) - or two bankable mid-tier vet arms. We really need it now. I feel the Angels are treading a new thin ice with their rotation - before, it was effectiveness and health of Skaggs, Heaney, Richards, Shoemaker, Tropeano - and now the next underlying concern will be relying on rookies to fill up the rotation when innings limits, sophomore slumps, and of course, the threat of injury, are all likely to rear their heads in some capacity.

So, yes - there aren't many times deals like this make sense despite their practicality - but there's so much roster sensibility applying here it seems hard to at least not hope it materializes.

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

my dogs turn in the yard would be better than ?Harvey/Cahill have been, but i dont think trading assets just for that reason is good when we can probably get that in FA.  
Its not a bad idea, i just want something substantial, we need something substantial, and i dont want to move a bunch of assets around without getting it 

The point being made is that the Halos are NOT that deep in starting pitching prospects in the higher minors or in guys up at the MLB level.   The moves suggested are aiming to do that.    Need to save money in case they can sign Cole.

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The point being made is that the Halos are NOT that deep in starting pitching prospects in the higher minors or in guys up at the MLB level.   The moves suggested are aiming to do that.    Need to save money in case they can sign Cole.

i understand that, but then what do we do for actual impact if we have no chips left?

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

i understand that, but then what do we do for actual impact if we have no chips left?

The whole point of this is to free up enough resources to afford to get actual impact by signing Cole (or Ryu, Wheeler, Bumgarner, taking Greinke's salary if Cole doesn't) while still addressing the need for adding a second arm. And this isn't dealing away all of our chips, leaving us with none left. This is not emptying the farm for another Jaime Barria or Nick Tropeano.

I think most here would agree we're really two arms short in the rotation in order to have adequate stability and depth - and we really need one to be high-impact, especially since Skaggs' had that ceiling and is no longer with us. 

We do not have the money for two of those arms, and if we really do want Cole, need all the money we can free up for him. This would be a minor way of addressing that second need in a frugal way. 
The alternative is trading even more impact prospects for another arm, which is still an option, but 1) costs more in salary arbitration and 2) comes with a higher prospect cost, necessitating other shrewd moves to offset that. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[totdprods]

@floplag another way to look at this would be, consider these four options...

• 2-3 Top 20 prospects traded for Stroman for 1.5 years and maybe a $10m+ plus arbitration pricetag 
• 3-4 Top 30 prospects, including 1-2 Top 10, for Boyd, 3.5 years of control, and $4m+ arbitration
• 2-3 Top 20 prospects, including one, maybe two, Top 5, for Bauer,  1.5 years of control, and $15m+ arbitration
• Ward+Herm for Hernandez/Gallen, 6 years of control, $550k for three years before arbitration

Which of those deals best enables the Angels to go after a high-impact arm like Cole and offer him whatever they feel they need to in order to sign? 
Keep in mind Bauer eliminates Cole too, so you'd be looking at signing Wheeler or Bumgarner or Odorizzi instead.

No, Gallen or Hernandez don't come with the impact of Stroman, Boyd, etc., but the vast difference in cost, control, and salary frees up what you need elsewhere, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that you still get #3-#4 production from them over the duration of their career, which would be of at least comparable value than what we'd get from someone like Stroman or Ray before their FA.

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

The whole point of this is to free up enough resources to afford to get actual impact by signing Cole (or Ryu, Wheeler, Bumgarner, taking Greinke's salary if Cole doesn't) while still addressing the need for adding a second arm. And this isn't dealing away all of our chips, leaving us with none left. This is not emptying the farm for another Jaime Barria or Nick Tropeano.

I think most here would agree we're really two arms short in the rotation in order to have adequate stability and depth - and we really need one to be high-impact, especially since Skaggs' had that ceiling and is no longer with us. 

We do not have the money for two of those arms, and if we really do want Cole, need all the money we can free up for him. This would be a minor way of addressing that second need in a frugal way. 
The alternative is trading even more impact prospects for another arm, which is still an option, but 1) costs more in salary arbitration and 2) comes with a higher prospect cost, necessitating other shrewd moves to offset that. 

How does trading prospects for prospects free up money? 
I see what you are saying or trying to do but i just dont think  it does what you hope it might.   
whether or not we have the money to sign a Cole will be answered whether or not a bunch of kids get shuffled around.
If you are trading for someone that actually helps to add to him, im fine with that but i didnt see that in the original post.

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, floplag said:

How does trading prospects for prospects free up money? 

By filling a need without signing a free agent. I feel, especially now after the loss of Skaggs, that we need to add two more legitimate arms to the rotation mix - either a tested MLB vet, or a legit, MLB-ready SP prospect with mid-rotation upside.
We already needed two arms this offseason to round out the rotation and look where it led us - $20m on Harvey and Cahill. 

The Angels should swing a trade from their expendable, IF/OF prospect depth for an additional SP, because we're still dangerously thin, especially if we're really relying on Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria to be rotation mainstays in 2020, regardless of any FA signee, regardless of how Ohtani returns. The fact that they've used Barria so sparingly this year despite his success last year should show that there is still both some caution in us fans relying on prospects to kickass and not struggle right away, and proof that the FO isn't fully comfortable pushing the young arms. We need them to be good, effective, and healthy for the next several years to make Eppler's big-picture plan work. 

Targeting a Marlins arm would be the most cost-effective solution, both in actual salary cost and prospect yield. No, it doesn't come with the impact of Boyd or Stroman or Ray, but it comes with enough value saved to offset that a good bit, and the Angels still have a lot of play, as much as possible and necessary, in free agency to bring in whatever is needed - Cole, Bumgarner, Ryu, Wheeler, or if they skunk on all those, they can go after one, even two mid-tier guys - Wacha, Odorizzi, Porcello, Gibson, Perez, Wood, Roark - and simply keep a stable of legit SP prospects in AAA. Great for depth, great for the bullpen, great for 6 man rotations, great for trades for more impact players. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by totdprods

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

It seems like making a deal just to make a deal... trading similar numbers for similar numbers and swapping spare parts.    There is no impact.  Its creative im not knocking that i just dont see where this benefits us that much is all. 

Because we would be trading from surplus for something we lack.

[Lou]

Just now, ten ocho recon scout said:

Because we would be trading from surplus for something we lack.