$28.5M spent on pitching in free agency...

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

I hope that when this season is done Billy won't be signing a few more reclamation projects on one-year contracts. Just stop it!!! Enough is enough!

 

I don't imagine that much money will be spent until we are clear of the Pujols contract.

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I don't imagine that much money will be spent until we are clear of the Pujols contract.

I've come to think that really wasn't to roadblock.  We've always spent, perhaps not as much as some of us would like but you cant argue logically that we haven't spent.   I do believe we could spend more, but that doesn't imply that we don't spend.  This thread alone proves that in that we spend near 30 mil in an effort to try to remain relevant in a transition year. 

[Angel Oracle]

28 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Let's hope Cole wants to come home and signs with the Angels. Hoping Arte opens up his wallet for him. We need a clear #1 outside of Ohtani IMO. Heaney, Canning, Skaggs and some of our prospects can fight it out for the remaining 3-4 spots assuming we go with a 6-man rotation. 

Either Cole in 6 months, or Bauer in 18 months...both would be returning home to SoCal.

[T.G.]

Regardless of the money spent... all three have been huge disappointments.  Pitching always seems to be somewhat of a crap shoot. The list of pitchers who sign big FA deals that end up failing miserably is long.  That's why it's best to develop your own and stock piles arms in the farm system.  Even then - it's hit and miss. 

Baseball is hard.

[rageous]

They really need to cut loose Cahill, Harvey and Cozart.

All 3 have been beyond bad and outright awful.

[Tank]

16 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Either Cole in 6 months, or Bauer in 18 months...both would be returning home to SoCal.

[Capital_Dave]

2.06, 2.57, 3.31, those are really good ERAs!

Oh, wait...

[Vegas Halo Fan]

56 minutes ago, floplag said:

I've come to think that really wasn't to roadblock.  We've always spent, perhaps not as much as some of us would like but you cant argue logically that we haven't spent.   I do believe we could spend more, but that doesn't imply that we don't spend.  This thread alone proves that in that we spend near 30 mil in an effort to try to remain relevant in a transition year. 

I can't imagine that spending $30M per season on production that is middling at best isn't an impediment to improving the club.

[Second Base]

Signing free agent pitchers isn't the problem, despite the tone of this thread.  The problem is signing the WRONG free agents, which is the problem.  Flat out, Billy Eppler sucks when it comes to FA.  He's good at trading, buying low, and building a farm, but he's proven time and again that he isn't someone to trust in FA.  It's not a bad thing because knowing his faults could prevent him from spending unnecessary money.

When it comes to signing a free agent pitcher, I'd probably follow the general circumstances.  1. The pitcher should still be in his 20's.  2. The pitcher should not have an extensive injury history.  3.  The pitcher should have at least four consecutive years of success.  This give you a good track record to work off of. 

If we work off these basic principles of investment, Nate Eovaldi wouldn't have been a smart decision.  Still in his 20's, but extensive injury history and lack of a track record.  But if we look at someone like Pat Corbin.  He did miss a year from surgery, but it five years ago.  He does have four quality seasons, but they aren't back to back.  And he's still young enough.  So it isn't to say he's a safe bet, but he is a safer bet than Eovaldi.  

Now if we look at the upcoming free agency, the top options figure to Madison Bumgarner (30), Gerrit Cole (29), Cole Hamels (36), Hyun Ji Ryu (33), and Zack Wheeler (30).  In this case, I suppose it's dependent upon how much you have to spend and what you're looking for.  If you don't have  alot and need a short 1-2 year fix, you're fine going with Cole Hamels.  If you need  a short term fix and have money to spend, Ryu is a good option.  If you're looking for something more long term and just need steady production, Bumgarner is the way to go.  And if you have money to spend and need ace level production, Gerrit Cole is the way to go. 

Cole makes particular sense for the Angels since he's young, has a solid track record and no real injury history.  With Madison Bumgarner, his stuff isn't what it used to be but it's clear that as of right now, he's still a mid-rotation starter.  Hamels is also a good option but one that you wouldn't bother invesing more than a year or two given the mileage on that arm.  Ryu is the ace in the hole, but his extensive injury history means you're taking a huge risk.  And finally, with Wheeler, he's fringe young, has four-ish years of production, and has been under the kniofe before, but only once and it was 4-5 years ago, but he missed a ton of time. 

It's almost a guarantee Eppler will be in on Cole, but given this team's current pitching depth and lack of upside, I'd argue that a two year venture on Hyun Jin Ryu would be a wise risk to take as well. 

[34red4]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

You can’t say Shoe panned Out, that would be like saying Richards has panned out for the Padres.   Shoe, regardless of how he pitched only gave them 5 starts.  

Shoemaker’s ($3.5M) in those 5 starts: 1.2 bWAR, 0.6 fWAR

By most WAR valuations, that is getting your money’s worth.

[floplag]

22 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I can't imagine that spending $30M per season on production that is middling at best isn't an impediment to improving the club.

Look around man, how many teams with higher payrolls dont have that problem though?  Its hardly unique to us in any way.  maybe not 30M wise but id wager many of them have 20/25M problems whould could be equally if not even more crippling pending available resources. 
Is it an impediment, it can be if we choose to let it be or we can simply accept it and move on. 

[Chuck]

One of the best cheap FA pickups for SP this offseason was Jordan Lyles. I'm surprised Eppler didn't go after him as he showed good peripherals last season with the Brewers and has been lights out for the Pirates this season to the tune of a  2.81 ERA, 1.01 WHIP, fanning 53 over 51 innings for the Buccos. He's just 28 years old. 

[Second Base]

I mean a rotation with Ohtani, Cole, Ryu, Canning, Skaggs and Heaney would be tough to beat.  And when the inevitable injury happens to Heaney and Ryu, they'd still have Suarez and Sandoval to fill in.  Lots of upside there. 

[Angel Oracle]

Comparing Cole this off-season to Bauer the following off-season:

Cole is 29 for most of 2020, has a rock solid WHIP the past 1 1/3 seasons, has solid control, BUT is giving up a lot of HRs so far which are driving up his ERA to around 4.00.        He also has Bo-a** for an agent.

Bauer will be 30 in the 2021 season, and strikes out a lot of batters but also is significantly wilder than Cole.   At least Bo-a** isn't his agent.

Both have been pretty healthy in their careers so far, and haven't logged a ton of innings. 

[beatlesrule]

15 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

And this is what we ended up with:

 

[Second Base]

13 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Comparing Cole this off-season to Bauer the following off-season:

Cole is 29 for most of 2020, has a rock solid WHIP the past 1 1/3 seasons, has solid control, BUT is giving up a lot of HRs so far which are driving up his ERA to around 4.00.        He also has Bo-a** for an agent.

Bauer will be 30 in the 2021 season, and strikes out a lot of batters but also is significantly wilder than Cole.   At least Bo-a** isn't his agent.

Both have been pretty healthy in their careers so far, and haven't logged a ton of innings. 

Bauer has indicated he'll only be signing year to year deals though.  Nothing long term.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Jinzu said:

Shoemaker’s ($3.5M) in those 5 starts: 1.2 bWAR, 0.6 fWAR

By most WAR valuations, that is getting your money’s worth.

If you say so.  Bottom line they signed the guy for the season not for April.   He’s done for the year.   

[Lou]

38 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If you say so.  Bottom line they signed the guy for the season not for April.   He’s done for the year.   

and because he can never stay healthy, they have have had to replace him with Pannone (7.40 era/ -0.5 bWAR) and now Jackson 9.00 era/ -0.6 bWAR) 

[Tank]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

Bauer has indicated he'll only be signing year to year deals though.  Nothing long term.  

I think once he and I sit down for our first lunch together that there will be a change in this philosophy. 

[34red4]

7 hours ago, Lou said:

and because he can never stay healthy, they have have had to replace him with Pannone (7.40 era/ -0.5 bWAR) and now Jackson 9.00 era/ -0.6 bWAR) 

It doesn’t work that way. The Blue Jays were a better team with him, even if it was for a short period of time.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Jinzu said:

It doesn’t work that way. The Blue Jays were a better team with him, even if it was for a short period of time.

Yes, it completely works that way.  They signed him for the entire season, they got him for April.  

[Taylor]

10 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Let's hope Cole wants to come home and signs with the Angels. Hoping Arte opens up his wallet for him. We need a clear #1 outside of Ohtani IMO. Heaney, Canning, Skaggs and some of our prospects can fight it out for the remaining 3-4 spots assuming we go with a 6-man rotation. 

Has he had TJ surgery yet?

[angelsnationtalk]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:24 AM, floplag said:

What did you expect?  All three were basically reclamation project that could be had on the one year deals we were seeking.  It was clear we were going to over pay or commit long term to anything.  If they worked out he was a genius, if not, well, noone should be surprised.   

The same thing was true on the offense signings, but some of those have worked out much better while others (Bour) have not.  Basically he got 2 out of 6 with Lucroy and LaStella working to date, not great odds.

But... it comes back to expectations and understanding what the goal for the year was.  As fans, we hoped for the best but the reality of it is that it was a tread water season from the start with the hopes that some might find a little magic to buy time to get to the real intended players for those spots.

None of them will be here next year, and this team will be much better after they are gone after a couple guys prove healthy and a couple more prove ready.  We will not be hurting for pitching in 20.  

yup, low risk high reward type situations.

[Angel Oracle]

With how Lucroy works better with younger pitchers, maybe they should adopt the A'th strategy and go with mainly young pitchers and Lucroy mentoring them?

Eventually trade Skaggs and re-sign Lucroy for 2 years, and go with Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Suarez, Pena, and Sandoval to start off 2020?

[Erstad Grit]

Cole

Ohtani

Heaney

Skaggs

Canning

That's a pretty good rotation! 2020!!!!!!