OC Register: Angels GM Billy Eppler says they ‘stretched’ budget to land Cody Allen

[Lou]

 revenue does not equal profit 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Thats the crux of the problem though isnt Jeff?  Does anyone actually believe thats all they have to spend?  I know i dont.   Most people i know or talk to dont believe the clubs arent making more than they claim.     Forbes magazine a typically trusted source on all things financial has estimated that the average revenue was 300M last year for example. 
To continue your analogy though hem saying they have a budget doesnt mean its all they cant spend, only that its all they are willing to spend.

Once again, this is his business.  They bring in less money than most teams at this payroll.  I shared this with you last week.  They bring in about $330 million a season.  The Dodgers and Yankees bring in $200-300 million more a season.  Hell the Astros and Braves bring in more revenue as do the Cubs, Giants, Mets and Red Sox.  Oh and the cost to go to an Angel game is one of the cheapest in the league.  So ask yourself why logically he doesn’t spend more money.  Is it because he isn’t competitive and doesn’t want to win?  If you think that you are ignorant.  Super successful people are some of the most competitive people in the world.  Maybe he simply understands the position he is in and knows that the extra money spent is a bad investment. 

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

 revenue does not equal profit 

no it doesnt, but more of it suggest the likelyhood of the other.  
none of us knows for sure, its all opinion, i simply do not buy that the teams arent making more than they claim.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

 revenue does not equal profit 

Hey Lou, since flop isn’t interested in answering this question I will ask you?  If your house worth more than you bought it for?  If so what did you do with all that money?  

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Once again, this is his business.  They bring in less money than most teams at this payroll.  I shared this with you last week.  They bring in about $330 million a season.  The Dodgers and Yankees bring in $200-300 million more a season.  Hell the Astros and Braves bring in more revenue as do the Cubs, Giants, Mets and Red Sox.  Oh and the cost to go to an Angel game is one of the cheapest in the league.  So ask yourself why logically he doesn’t spend more money.  Is it because he isn’t competitive and doesn’t want to win?  If you think that you are ignorant.  Super successful people are some of the most competitive people in the world.  Maybe he simply understands the position he is in and knows that the extra money spent is a bad investment. 

Perhaps, but we dont know either way do we, thus the problem

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Hey Lou, since flop isn’t interested in answering this question I will ask you?  If your house worth more than you bought it for?  If so what did you do with all that money?  

... sigh, the return of the mutual masturbation society.  

[Stradling]

Just now, floplag said:

... sigh, the return of the mutual masturbation society.  

So what did you do with all of the profit?  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

Perhaps, but we dont know either way do we, thus the problem

Right we don’t know for sure, but the fact that he isn’t spending more is much more indicative that there isn’t a lot more to spend.  

[Docwaukee]

21 minutes ago, floplag said:

Perhaps, but we dont know either way do we, thus the problem

why does the reason even matter?  

we know what he spends on payroll

we know what revenue is. 

we know what other teams spend and what their revenue is.  

if he's an outlier, it's actually in the direction of spending more than most.  

your argument is that he could spend more but he won't and that's somehow important to you.  

why? 

why does Arte Moreno owe you an explanation as to his motivation for turning a profit?  

I'll tell you why.  

Fans spend their money and time on what they are fans of knowing that there will be zero return of their money or their time.  It's a pure emotional investment on our part.  They expect fun, enjoyment and entertainment.  

He expects some of that as well, but he also expects to make money.  He has different motivations so you can't expect him to operate as if he has a similar set of goals as the fans.  

Of course he's not spending every last dollar available to spend.  That would make him a bad business owner.  

If your expectation is that he shouldn't be trying to make a profit off of you then you have essentially restricted yourself from ever purchasing anything ever.  

Weigh the pros and cons and buy the product or don't.    

 

[beatlesrule]

As it has been said before, a lot of us are upset with Arte because he has the best player in baseball and potentially the greatest of all time on his team and hasn't done all he can in that time to win a World Series and only has one short playoff appearance.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting into the playoffs mean extra money for him? Wouldn't getting to the ALCS be extra money for him?

I fully understand he wants to make as much money as possible and he is obviously happy with the money he is making but I'm pretty sure he would make more money if he won more and actually got to the playoffs. 

Just my opinion of course. I wouldn't be nearly as upset with him if he didn't have the best player in baseball on his team and one of the best defensive shortstops of all time and a two-way player. It seems like a tremendous waste to me but it's not my team and all I can do is just hope they win a second wild-card.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

As it has been said before, a lot of us are upset with Arte because he has the best player in baseball and potentially the greatest of all time on his team and hasn't done all he can in that time to win a World Series and only has one short playoff appearance.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting into the playoffs mean extra money for him? Wouldn't getting to the ALCS be extra money for him?

1) The Angels payroll has been higher than ever in recent years. 

2) simply spending all you can doesn’t mean you get to the ALCS, otherwise Hamilton, Wilson, Weaver, and Pujols would have gotten us there.

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

Thats the crux of the problem though isnt Jeff?  Does anyone actually believe thats all they have to spend?  I know i dont.   Most people i know or talk to dont believe the clubs arent making more than they claim.     Forbes magazine a typically trusted source on all things financial has estimated that the average revenue was 300M last year for example. 
To continue your analogy though hem saying they have a budget doesnt mean its all they cant spend, only that its all they are willing to spend.

I understand that, but it's just your guess.

Do you have any clue what it costs for all the front office employees? Minor league employees? Equipment? Travel? Ushers? Do you have any idea how much they make off ticket sales, concessions, parking? None of us really has any idea what any of the other numbers are in the equation.

Yes, they probably could spend more because they're probably making more. I think that's true of almost every successful company in the world. 

 

[beatlesrule]

The majority on this board only wanted one of those guys and that was Weaver. Weaver also took a discount to resign. Something like 40 million. Arte spent poorly with most of his FA signings. Most of us wanted Hunter not Hamilton. I wanted Fielder over Pujols. Not sure what pitcher was available over Wilson. I hate to keep bringing it up but he didn't sign Beltre. That's just one example of guys that would have made a big difference. Obviously if you spend poorly, it doesn't matter what players you sign. He could have signed very good players from 2012 and beyond and didn't. He could have been right up against the tax or exceeded it and didn't. Imagine the Lakers not spending money while they had Kobe and Shaq.  Think they still would have won all those titles? When Shaq left, did the Lakers waste Kobe?  Before they got Gasol, yes they did. Then they started spending money, making trades and got 2 more rings. 

I get that his payroll has been high but there have been blatant holes in the lineup and pitching staff for years that have been covered with a band aid instead of paying for proven talent. Again, not my team and Arte is still getting his 3 million fans. I just think getting to the playoffs would garner him more money and allow him to buy another yacht. He hasn't won a World Series or even gotten to a World Series since buying the team. He has had the best player in baseball since 2012. He has the best defensive SS of maybe all time. He has a 2 way player not seen since Babe Ruth. 

He's allowed Pujols to be a black hole in the lineup. That alone tells me he isn't serious about putting the absolute best team possible out there. Maybe that changes this year. It's fine if people here think he's put the absolute best team possible on the field since he's had Trout. You are entitled to your opinion. The facts to me prove otherwise though.

[Torridd]

Hey flop, you're not alone in calling this BS. The Angels have gotten better, but they didn't fix all their fallacies. Historically, the Angels haven't run the team like this.

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Torridd said:

The Angels have gotten better, but they didn't fix all their fallacies.

which team has?

 

8 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Historically, the Angels haven't run the team like this.

you can't be serious 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

The majority on this board only wanted one of those guys and that was Weaver.

So Arte needs to consult the board on the best way to show that he’s trying to win? He needs to ask the board which players to sign? Will that solve this?

Arte’s spending is a huge reason why we haven’t been able to compete in free agency in recent years, and a huge reason why dollars didn’t go to the farm. 

But Arte’s spending also kept us consistently amongst the best of the AL for a full decade. No tanking. No rebuilding. His spending got us our first HOF and an MVP, a Cy Young winner, and his spending is the reason Trout didn’t hit free agency two years ago. 

Yeah some of the signings were big mistakes. Oh Facking well. Every team has them. Arte could’ve pulled the plug, cut payroll to nothing, watched Trout bolt, and enjoyed the easy, casual lackadaisical SoCal fans for easy money for a few years while ‘rebuilding’ but instead he still lets the GM push the payroll to the last edge of what they deem viable every single season. The only difference is now the GM is savvy enough to spread that money as far as possible and keep things as flexible as possible while working on building some farm team sustainability, instead of shelling it out on big busts like his predecessors. 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

So Arte needs to consult the board on the best way to show that he’s trying to win? He needs to ask the board which players to sign? Will that solve this?

 

anyone who has read this board over the years knows just how disastrous that would have been. 

[Dtwncbad]

3 hours ago, Lou said:

 revenue does not equal profit 

And neither does cash flow.

Those that have real substantial wealth have the luxury of managing their assets to grow their wealth and net worth rather than focus on annual "profit" measured by cash in and cash out.

It is Arte's team and he can do whatever he wants.  But I am absolutely not going to be among the naive that think he couldn't manage this asset a little differently, put more talent on the field, AND continue to get wealthier every year.

Whatever!  It's his team.  He can go by a budget at any number he wants.

There is certainly a balance between level of spending and team financial health.

My only stubborn point is Arte is not anywhere close to a spending level that could even begin to threaten the team's financial health or even begin to threaten the runaway equity growth he is achieving on the balance sheet.

Somebody said owners are very competitive.  They are.  And some are more competitive in terms of wins and some in terms bragging rights in team net value.

I think Arte does want to win. But I dont think he wants to win more than he wants to fully maximize equity gain year over year.  He is among the elite of owners in financial success owning a team from purchase date to present.

I am a fan, not an owner.  So I would like it more if he rested a bit on what he has already accomplished financially and put more talent on the field to put a higher priority on wins.

He is not a bad owner for his chosen order of priorities and I am not a bad fan for my fan opinion on what I think his order of priorities should or could be.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Dtwncbad

[Torridd]

25 minutes ago, Lou said:

which team has?

 

you can't be serious 

I'm very serious. Suddenly, the Angels are spending money like teams with much lesser revenues. I'm upset that this team is going into the season with Cozart/Ward, Fletcher, and Calhoun as starters. I don't know how they can expect to win unless they all happen to succeed at the same time. To me, the entire offseason has been a giant gamble. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I'm very serious. Suddenly, the Angels are spending money like teams with much lesser revenues. I'm upset that this team is going into the season with Cozart/Ward, Fletcher, and Calhoun as starters. I don't know how they can expect to win unless they all happen to succeed at the same time. To me, the entire offseason has been a giant gamble. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

This is absolutely false. 

[Dtwncbad]

Just a side comment. . .

The Orioles owner is betting filthy rich.  He is one of the richest owners in baseball.  He refuses to spend it on committing to winning.

In my opinion, this is a terrible baseball owner.  I do not expect any owner to blow his wealth on trying to win.

But I do believe they should prioritize wins enough to spend "aggressively" to a certain level.  The Oriolesnowner could spend way, way, way more and still have the team continue to make him wealthier.

[Lou]

33 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I'm very serious. Suddenly, the Angels are spending money like teams with much lesser revenues. I'm upset that this team is going into the season with Cozart/Ward, Fletcher, and Calhoun as starters. I don't know how they can expect to win unless they all happen to succeed at the same time. To me, the entire offseason has been a giant gamble. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

do you have any idea where we rank on current payroll?  Fifth.

every team ahead of us has much higher revenue coming in on an annual basis.

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Just a side comment. . .

The Orioles owner is betting filthy rich.  He is one of the richest owners in baseball.  He refuses to spend it on committing to winning.

In my opinion, this is a terrible baseball owner.  I do not expect any owner to blow his wealth on trying to win.

But I do believe they should prioritize wins enough to spend "aggressively" to a certain level.  The Oriolesnowner could spend way, way, way more and still have the team continue to make him wealthier.

most owners fit into the same category. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

54 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

My only stubborn point is Arte is not anywhere close to a spending level that could even begin to threaten the team's financial health or even begin to threaten the runaway equity growth he is achieving on the balance sheet.

How do you know?

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Jeff Fletcher said:

How do you know?

Jeff do you think Arte secretly has Russian investors he is paying 54% annual interest on $650 million in debt we don't know about?