Recommended Posts

You gotta wonder if they might look at Marsh at 1B. The guy is really impressing lately and might be the perfect lead off dude in front of Trout and Ohtani for years to come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Scott34 said:

You gotta wonder if they might look at Marsh at 1B. The guy is really impressing lately and might be the perfect lead off dude in front of Trout and Ohtani for years to come. 

I just don't see why you'd play a mediocre fielder like Upton in the outfield and an excellent outfielder like Marsh at 1B. It would be a bit like the Erstad-at-1B years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marsh up to 300 now, probably getting closer to a promotionto AAA and than a look at the Major next season.

Solid start for Madero, struggled a bit but still has a bit of upside, will repeat AA next season. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I just don't see why you'd play a mediocre fielder like Upton in the outfield and an excellent outfielder like Marsh at 1B. It would be a bit like the Erstad-at-1B years.

Think J-Up would move to First? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

Marsh up to 300 now, probably getting closer to a promotionto AAA and than a look at the Major next season.

Solid start for Madero, struggled a bit but still has a bit of upside, will repeat AA next season. 

 

Madero was awful for a while but has strung up a couple decent starts now. Ortega has been awful in AA too. Hope he turns it around, though, if he sucks the rest of the year may make it easier for him to get bypassed in the Rule 5, allowing the Angels to keep a spot free on the 40.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I just don't see why you'd play a mediocre fielder like Upton in the outfield and an excellent outfielder like Marsh at 1B. It would be a bit like the Erstad-at-1B years.

To be fair, Erstad was also a GG at 1B so having primo defense at first wouldn’t be bad. And it’d be short-term. 

I don’t think we see either at 1B though, at least on any sort of routine basis. 

Personally I think Upton would be a disaster at 1B. He doesn’t seem to have the reaction or quick hands you’d hope for and a few too many mental gaffes. 1B is so much more involved than LF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Scott34 said:

Think J-Up would move to First? 

He seems like a team player. Probably doesn't want it, but if Ausmus/Eppler strong arm hiim...

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

To be fair, Erstad was also a GG at 1B so having primo defense at first wouldn’t be bad. And it’d be short-term. 

I don’t think we see either at 1B though, at least on any sort of routine basis. 

Personally I think Upton would be a disaster at 1B. He doesn’t seem to have the reaction or quick hands you’d hope for and a few too many mental gaffes. 1B is so much more involved than LF. 

I wonder if Erstad is the only player ever to win a GG in the OF and IF. Probably not, but he might be. Anyhow, I hear you but just think Marsh belongs in the OF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upton to 1B/DH is one of those ideas I've been floating for a year or two now. It makes sense on the surface, saves his legs, he will be in his mid 30's keeps his bat in the lineup, opens a spot for Marsh.

But things that make sense rarely ever happen. The more likely scenario is that Marsh is dealt for pitching this winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would rather not trade Marsh and  instead simply sign two solid starters.

Yup, this. While he obviously has value, it really isn't necessary to trade him. Eppler should start by going hard after Cole and one of Wheeler/Odorizzi/Ryu/etc. If that doesn't bear fruit, he can see what sort of fish he hooks with lesser bait than Marsh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yup, this. While he obviously has value, it really isn't necessary to trade him. Eppler should start by going hard after Cole and one of Wheeler/Odorizzi/Ryu/etc. If that doesn't bear fruit, he can see what sort of fish he hooks with lesser bait than Marsh.

Robbie Ray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would rather not trade Marsh and  instead simply sign two solid starters.

I think that’s everyone’s preferred outcome - no prospects spent, only money - but that also locks in payroll a little more than Eppler would like I’d think. Trading for an arm as the second (or even third) rotation addition makes a ton of sense due to the benefit of keeping salary low enough for other FA moves. 

Not saying it’s wrong, but there’s a lot of benefit in the flexibility a trade would offer as well. 

It comes down to cost in trades and free agency. I’m not terribly excited about having to possibly have a $15m+ Odorizzi three or four years from now if we’ve got Soriano, Yan, Bradish, Pina, Holmes, Aquino, Kochanowicz, etc. beating down the door for a rotation slot, especially if we’ve kept Canning, Barria, Suarez, and Sandoval since we didn’t pull any trades.

Edited by totdprods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would rather not trade Marsh and  instead simply sign two solid starters.

I too think trading Marsh would come back to haunt them.  That plate discipline is already good and it will likely continue to get better.  His pitch recognition might make for the best combination of high floor/high ceiling in the system.  Including Adell.

Edited by Inside Pitch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point I see no reason to deplete the outfield depth in the minors. Having Goodwin allows the Angels time to move Adell into right field, then in the following year Marsh makes his way into the roster. But the Angela need that depth and fallback plan to cover the outfield at a discounted rate for the next five seasons to concentrate resources on starting pitching. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think about how expensive the Angels payroll will be in five years when guys like Fletcher and Rengifo are deep into arbitration, Adell if he is who we think he is will need those arb years bought out with an extension and Marsh be right behind him. 

Sure, we probably won't have Simmons and Upton is gone but dang, that talented core isn't playing for free. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Instead of Cole and one from the next level group of FAs, how about two from that next level?

The next level guys likely won’t be signing for over 3-4 year deals.

I'm sure that's Plan B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, totdprods said:

I think that’s everyone’s preferred outcome - no prospects spent, only money - but that also locks in payroll a little more than Eppler would like I’d think. Trading for an arm as the second (or even third) rotation addition makes a ton of sense due to the benefit of keeping salary low enough for other FA moves. 

Not saying it’s wrong, but there’s a lot of benefit in the flexibility a trade would offer as well. 

It comes down to cost in trades and free agency. I’m not terribly excited about having to possibly have a $15m+ Odorizzi three or four years from now if we’ve got Soriano, Yan, Bradish, Pina, Holmes, Aquino, Kochanowicz, etc. beating down the door for a rotation slot, especially if we’ve kept Canning, Barria, Suarez, and Sandoval since we didn’t pull any trades.

If you can't get Odorizzi for less than that, then you don't sign him.  

only a couple pitchers got 3 years or more in the last FA market.  

corbin 6/140 - good in the fist year
eovaldi 4/67.5  - terrible in the first year.  already in the pen
Kikuchi 3/43 - terrible in the first year. 
Lynn - 3/30 - surprisingly good his first year.  

the rest are relievers in Britton, Familia, Ottavino, Joe Kelly.  Two of them have been good and the other two, not so much.  

the year before that, most of the starters signed for 3 or more year have been a mess in Darvish, Arrieta, Cobb, Chatwood.  Mike Minor has been the only good choice and he got 3/28.  

I think Odorizzi gets 3/36 max and maybe even a little less aav to get that 3rd year.  

Ryu will go back to the dogs on a two year deal. Maybe 3 years but I doubt it.  

Bumgarner probably gets 4 years but he might end up in Keuchel limbo.  

Wheeler is a wild card but I bet he ends up with 3 years as well.  

Cole will get 6.

If the market stays similar to last year, then the mid tier market for SP is at least closer to being in line as to their true value and I would be ok with one of those guys in addition to Cole.  

I look at a guy like Zack Wheeler and think he's a classic Eppler target.  Big time fastball velo.  High spin rates on his curve.  Some untapped potential.  I could see him being a primary target regardless of whether they get Cole.  

I really don't want to see the Angels trade from the farm to get an arm next year unless they can do so without giving up Marsh.  

While I think there is some growing consensus that the Angels need to sign 3 starters next year, I think if they get Cole and one other, they will be ok.  Maybe a 1yr deal on top of that for a guy like a Wade Miley or a Gio Gonzalez type but I wouldn't have them commit to 3 SP contracts of 3 years or more.  

I also think people will be surprised as to the progression that some of the young guys will make in a year.  Canning, Suarez, Sandoval and Barria are all going to get better.  With a top four of 2 FAs, Ohtani and Heaney, those other four can man the back of the rotation.  Peters can also fill in and maybe even Trop if need be.  That would be ten guys without making a trade.  Add one more on a 1/5 deal and I think we're set while keeping the farm intact.  

They're gonna need Marsh sooner than later.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

If you can't get Odorizzi for less than that, then you don't sign him.  

If the market stays similar to last year, then the mid tier market for SP is at least closer to being in line as to their true value and I would be ok with one of those guys in addition to Cole.  

I look at a guy like Zack Wheeler and think he's a classic Eppler target.  Big time fastball velo.  High spin rates on his curve.  Some untapped potential.  I could see him being a primary target regardless of whether they get Cole.  

I really don't want to see the Angels trade from the farm to get an arm next year unless they can do so without giving up Marsh.  

While I think there is some growing consensus that the Angels need to sign 3 starters next year, I think if they get Cole and one other, they will be ok.  Maybe a 1yr deal on top of that for a guy like a Wade Miley or a Gio Gonzalez type but I wouldn't have them commit to 3 SP contracts of 3 years or more.  

I also think people will be surprised as to the progression that some of the young guys will make in a year.  Canning, Suarez, Sandoval and Barria are all going to get better.  With a top four of 2 FAs, Ohtani and Heaney, those other four can man the back of the rotation.  Peters can also fill in and maybe even Trop if need be.  That would be ten guys without making a trade.  Add one more on a 1/5 deal and I think we're set while keeping the farm intact.  

They're gonna need Marsh sooner than later.  

This here is actually the biggest reason why I start to hesitate quite a bit when it comes to the non-Gerrit Cole guys...we need all the arms we can get but paying Odorizzi or Wheeler $12m three years from now might be a total clog in what could be a really good rotation - provided folks stay healthy. 

I think the aggressive promotions will continue, and while the current quartet is here due of necessity, it wouldn't surprise me if Soriano and Yan ended 2020 in AA and were flirting with MLB action as soon as 2021. Any of the Bradish, Ortega, Madero, Wantz, Beasley, Hernandez, Criswell could all wind up MLB-ready at AAA next year as well. And if our current crop takes the next step, the rotation gets very crowded, very quickly - and while that's always ideal and you can never have enough pitching, it's also not doing anyone a lot of favors if things finally do break right and we wind up burning some of our guys' control stashing them in AAA as depth. 

That's why I think after Gerrit Cole, Eppler might still turn towards one-year deals for guys like Wacha, Wood, Gibson, Hamels before considering one or two of the multi-year mid-tier guys, or consider a trade. 
Eppler is worked into a bit of a corner this offseason - his one-year deals in FA have almost all flopped, he's extremely hesitant to commit multi-year deals for mid-tier talent, and he does not trade prospects - he's going to have to deviate from at least one of those in order to address the rotation this winter, so hard for us to really know what to expect since he's being pushed into a new direction. 
if 
If they miss out on Cole, I have a very hard time imagining them committing 2/5ths of the rotation for $12-$15m for 3 years for two arms like Odorizzi and Wheeler, even if they'd go a long way to helping our 2020 odds. They might complicate the 2021/2022 payrolls and rotation slots unnecessarily. And before anyone suggests "Well if everyone's good and healthy you can trade arms for bats" I would be really surprised if Eppler will ever feel comfortable dealing good, young, cheap MLB pitching after what he's gone through here.

Considering all of that - it leads me to believe Eppler might opt to swing a trade for an arm before signing a mid-tier guy if they happen to sign Cole. If they don't, no doubt Eppler considers signing one or even two, as there should be enough flexibility across the board for SP FAs to make the salary and years work.

Edited by totdprods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • AngelsWin.com Ad-free Membership Options