The Kikuchi Thread

[Dtwncbad]

What do you think of this guy?

What kind of contract will he get?

How does he or doesnt he fit into the Angels plans?

[Stradling]

“5 years $200 million”

-ettin 

Just kidding @ettin.  

I think he will get 5 years around $50-60 million.  

[Revad]

Five years is enough time to recover from shoulder surgery, I think.  Actually I’d feel better with an option for a sixth year to increase the chances of three healthy years.  Could the Original Ryu contract with the Dodgers be a model?  

[Dtwncbad]

Is he coming off surgery or heading into one?

I thought he had some discomfort problems in the past but didnt know there was something real and present.

[hangin n wangin]

If he has any discomfort or damage to his shoulder and we get him you know it’s fallin’ off.

[totdprods]

Don't think the Angels will get him - it'll be San Fran, San Diego, or Seattle. The balky shoulder and mid-tier rotation redundancy have him as a pass in my eyes.

Money would be better spent on catcher, pen help, perhaps another infielder.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Don't think the Angels will get him - it'll be San Fran, San Diego, or Seattle. The balky shoulder and mid-tier rotation redundancy have him as a pass in my eyes.

Money would be better spent on catcher, pen help, perhaps another infielder.

i agree. I think his health and past injuries + miles on his arm is too big of a risk for Eppler to take. 

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

i agree. I think his health and past injuries + miles on his arm is too big of a risk for Eppler to take. 

Yup - especially since he's more of a luxury at this point. 

[Docwaukee]

I get the sense that the team has move on.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

i agree. I think his health and past injuries + miles on his arm is too big of a risk for Eppler to take. 

Miles on his arm?  Wouldn’t he have less miles on his arm coming from Japan versus being a 26 year old MLB free agent starter?  

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

i agree. I think his health and past injuries + miles on his arm is too big of a risk for Eppler to take. 

Miles?  He is 27?

[Chuck]

Just now, Stradling said:

Miles on his arm?  Wouldn’t he have less miles on his arm coming from Japan versus being a 26 year old MLB free agent starter?  

No. They've been notorious for taxing the arms of their pitchers over there from such an early pre-teen age. There's been several articles on it. This is what's great about getting Ohtani at such a young age. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

No. They've been notorious for taxing the arms of their pitchers over there from such an early pre-teen age. There's been several articles on it. This is what's great about getting Ohtani at such a young age. 

Ok. I assumed with the 6 and 7 man rotations there they would be pitching less.  I stand corrected.  

[Chuck]

Just now, Stradling said:

Ok. I assumed with the 6 and 7 man rotations there they would be pitching less.  I stand corrected.  

Yeah, some were even concerned about Darvish when he signed with Texas because of the miles he had on his arm and now we're seeing it with TJ surgery and multiple other issues since signing. 

[Second Base]

I'd still like to see the Angels get him. They were aggressive on Ohtani despite knowing about his damage UCL. Kikuchi shouldn't be much different and we know Eppler has scouted him in Japan before. The Angels could shift into a 6 man rotation to protect his arm, and that would likely serve as a benefit for Harvey, Cahill and Skaggs who all have a less than desirable injury history. Plus, there's already an infrastructure in place in Anaheim to adequately meet the needs of a Japanese player, and there's a Japanese fan base here already. 

[Inside Pitch]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok. I assumed with the 6 and 7 man rotations there they would be pitching less.  I stand corrected.  

Japanese pitchers aren't so much known for excessive innings totals as much as they rack up pitch totals..  They tend to "Stanford Cardinal" pitchers over there which often leads to arm trouble.   Darvish, Tanaka, both were known to have down 140+ pitch games...   As far as Kikuchi goes, he has had shoulder issues twice already.

Ultimately it comes down to his demands IMO.... 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I'd still like to see the Angels get him. They were aggressive on Ohtani despite knowing about his damage UCL. Kikuchi shouldn't be much different and we know Eppler has scouted him in Japan before. The Angels could shift into a 6 man rotation to protect his arm, and that would likely serve as a benefit for Harvey, Cahill and Skaggs who all have a less than desirable injury history. Plus, there's already an infrastructure in place in Anaheim to adequately meet the needs of a Japanese player, and there's a Japanese fan base here already. 

Shoulders are an entirely different animal when it comes to arm injuries though.

[Tank]

50 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Is he coming off surgery or heading into one?

I thought he had some discomfort problems in the past but didnt know there was something real and present.

if he signs here, we all know the drill:

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

56 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Is he coming off surgery or heading into one?

I thought he had some discomfort problems in the past but didnt know there was something real and present.

No surgery.

 

Discomfort that he pitched through. It was an actual issue where he had a 4-5 mph decrease in VELO and couldn't throw his hard breaking slider (previously his #1 pitch) at the same speed "hard". Which led him to his secondary pitches that were termed ordinary (curve and change)by Nippon League beat writers. Shoulders are bigger issues than TJ surgery. As you get into labrum and cuff issues and what really scares me is the total pin attachment thing like Johan Santana.

I see similar to Ohtani 3-5 year deal 8-12M per + bonuses.

I'm not crazy about acquiring him unless you deal one of (Skaggs/Heaney)I'm just not a fan of having 2-3 lefties in the rotation with the same repertoire as I've stated previously.

[Angelsjunky]

52 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I'd still like to see the Angels get him. They were aggressive on Ohtani despite knowing about his damage UCL. Kikuchi shouldn't be much different and we know Eppler has scouted him in Japan before. The Angels could shift into a 6 man rotation to protect his arm, and that would likely serve as a benefit for Harvey, Cahill and Skaggs who all have a less than desirable injury history. Plus, there's already an infrastructure in place in Anaheim to adequately meet the needs of a Japanese player, and there's a Japanese fan base here already. 

Ohtani and Kikuchi are very different situations. For one, Ohtani has ace-level stuff; Kikuchi is more mid-rotation. Secondly, it might be that the Angels knew that the current scenario might occur: Ohtani needs TJS, but can still be a productive history while his arm recovers. Kikuchi doesn't have a secondary skill-set to fall back on.

Anyhow, the situation is similar to Moustakas at 3B, as being discussed in another thread. I am not convinced that Kikuchi is significantly better than current (and cheaper) in-house options. They've already signed two starters, do they need a third? Only if he's a significant upgrade, and I don't think Kikuchi would be.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Miles?  He is 27?

Plus, he's from Japan, so I believe the correct term is kilometers.

[Angelsjunky]

14 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Plus, he's from Japan, so I believe the correct term is kiwometers.

Fixed.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Japanese pitchers aren't so much known for excessive innings totals as much as they rack up pitch totals..  They tend to "Stanford Cardinal" pitchers over there which often leads to arm trouble.   Darvish, Tanaka, both were known to have down 140+ pitch games...   As far as Kikuchi goes, he has had shoulder issues twice already.

Ultimately it comes down to his demands IMO.... 

140+ pitch games are the norm here after you factor in between inning warm up and pregame bullpen warmup 50%, 75%, 100%.

Actually, for bullpen pitchers depending on how long it takes them to heat up and between cool downs if they dont get into a game it becomes a worse thing.

It comes down to repetition motion injuries, lack of mechanics and torque on the arm.

The difference has been when they were younger in high school as they tend to stick to one pitcher games. I remember reading articles on Darvish and Tanaka where they threw 200+ pitch games in high school. Here we have CIF rules that limit rest between starts and innings.

[Angel Oracle]

Currently, the rotation is:  Heaney, Harvey, Skaggs, Cahill, and Barria plus for depth in the minors Canning, Suarez, Bridwell, Tropeano (shoulder issues putting him this low) and Sandoval (currently in AA).    Is that enough to get through a season?   Possibly, but if they need an additional arm, it shouldn't be Kikuchi but instead another clean peanut candidate.

Focus now on a catcher to pair with Briceno and Smith, and on a late innings mentor guy like Robertson.   

[Docwaukee]

last year our rotation and depth was ohtani, richards, skaggs, heaney, shoe, ramirez, trop, barria, pena, bridwell and Lamb.  

this year our rotation and depth are Heaney, Skaggs, Harvey, Cahill, Barria, Pena, Trop, Canning, Suarez, Peters, Forrest Snow? or Luis Pena?  

I really liked the potential of last year's rotation but then 4 of our top 6 ended up throwing a total of 170 ip.  

Can we get about 700 innings out of the top 5?  maybe?  please?  That's only 140 ips each for the love of baby J.