The Kikuchi Thread

[HaloNArizona]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

last year our rotation and depth was ohtani, richards, skaggs, heaney, shoe, ramirez, trop, barria, pena, bridwell and Lamb.  

this year our rotation and depth are Heaney, Skaggs, Harvey, Cahill, Barria, Pena, Trop, Canning, Suarez, Peters, Forrest Snow? or Luis Pena?  

I really liked the potential of last year's rotation but then 4 of our top 6 ended up throwing a total of 170 ip.  

Can we get about 700 innings out of the top 5?  maybe?  please?  That's only 140 ips each for the love of baby J.  

  

 

This is more accurate...JC Ramirez should be ready, might be ready possibly ready by mid-season.

Cahill will not make the entire year, so that opens the door for Pena/Canning.

We need to focus on a catcher and I am still not sold on a 3Bman...I'd still like to see Moustakas at 3B, with either Cozart or Fletcher at 2B and the other being the util guy....

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Shoulders are an entirely different animal when it comes to arm injuries though.

I am rehabbing after rotator cuff surgery and it is a challenge...and all I'm trying to do is get my arm above my head, not throw sliders or splits to MLB hitters......

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I am rehabbing after rotator cuff surgery and it is a challenge...and all I'm trying to do is get my arm above my head, not throw sliders or splits to MLB hitters......

Rotator cuff injury is what did me in back in my HS baseball days too. 

Can’t see the Angels taking the risk on a shoulder after already adding Cahill and Harvey. 

[Angelsjunky]

Add in Bridwell, Farrell and possibly Smith and Ramirez later in the year.

I look at it this way. If the Angels can get 25 starts on average from their top 5, that's 125ish starts, leaving 35ish starts to distribute between the rest. Felix Pena and Nick Tropeano (if he regains his form) are arguably as good as Barria. Canning will be better, Suarez probably as well. I think Peters fits into that solid #4-5 mold as well.

The 2019 rotation doesn't have the upside of 2018, but I think it has more depth - and should be healthier. They have lots of guys who can fill the #4-5 slots. What they need is at least a couple guys to step up and becoming good #2-3s. Hopefully at least one of Heaney/Skaggs and one of Harvey/Cahill. Better yet, several of them (I won't be greedy and ask for all four to maximize). Or maybe Griffin Canning has a great first couple months in AAA and emerges fully formed from the salty brine of Utah, like a modern-day (and male) Aphrodite. Or like Jered Weaver.

 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Add in Bridwell, Farrell and possibly Smith and Ramirez later in the year.

I look at it this way. If the Angels can get 25 starts on average from their top 5, that's 125ish starts, leaving 35ish starts to distribute between the rest. Felix Pena and Nick Tropeano (if he regains his form) are arguably as good as Barria. Canning will be better, Suarez probably as well. I think Peters fits into that solid #4-5 mold as well.

The 2019 rotation doesn't have the upside of 2018, but I think it has more depth - and should be healthier. They have lots of guys who can fill the #4-5 slots. What they need is at least a couple guys to step up and becoming good #2-3s. Hopefully at least one of Heaney/Skaggs and one of Harvey/Cahill. Better yet, several of them (I won't be greedy and ask for all four to maximize). Or maybe Griffin Canning has a great first couple months in AAA and emerges fully formed from the salty brine of Utah, like a modern-day (and male) Aphrodite. Or like Jered Weaver.

 

I watched a lot of Canning last year.  Nasty stuff but very unpolished.  It would surprise me if he came up and was instantly consistent.  I think we're gonna see flashes of brilliance mixed in with flashed of beat down.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

140+ pitch games are the norm here after you factor in between inning warm up and pregame bullpen warmup 50%, 75%, 100%.

Actually, for bullpen pitchers depending on how long it takes them to heat up and between cool downs if they dont get into a game it becomes a worse thing.

It comes down to repetition motion injuries, lack of mechanics and torque on the arm.

The difference has been when they were younger in high school as they tend to stick to one pitcher games. I remember reading articles on Darvish and Tanaka where they threw 200+ pitch games in high school. Here we have CIF rules that limit rest between starts and innings.

Yep...  I was using 140 as a sort of safe point like 100 became the redline  stateside.   They absolutely ride arms into the ground.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I watched a lot of Canning last year.  Nasty stuff but very unpolished.  It would surprise me if he came up and was instantly consistent.  I think we're gonna see flashes of brilliance mixed in with flashed of beat down.  

Sounds like Bauer, who took several seasons before he really got into a groove. 

As much upside that Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria possess, we shouldn’t really count on them to do much more than give us some #4-5 production collectively over the next couple of seasons. 

[Docwaukee]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Sounds like Bauer, who took several seasons before he really got into a groove. 

As much upside that Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria possess, we shouldn’t really count on them to do much more than give us some #4-5 production collectively over the next couple of seasons. 

good comp.  Bauer seems a little nutty to me.  Canning is a bulldog on the mound.  I think Griffin will progress a little more quickly.  With Bauer's stuff, it shouldn't have taken that long.  

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Sounds like Bauer, who took several seasons before he really got into a groove. 

As much upside that Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, and Barria possess, we shouldn’t really count on them to do much more than give us some #4-5 production collectively over the next couple of seasons. 

Canning is about as much like Bauer as any pitcher can be.  Born and raised in the same area. Attended the same college with the same coaches. Same build, same arsenal, same intelligent yet confident/competitive demeanor. Both experienced progressive jumps in velocity as they got older. Both have a longer prep time before each start than other pitchers around them.

Trevor Bauer was 23 before he was an effective starting pitcher in the major leagues. It is likely that Canning will be either 23 or 24 before he's an effective starter in the major leagues. Bauer was 27 when he grew into an ace. Canning will likely also be around 27 when he develops into an ace.

Fact is, Canning would've been the sixth best starting pitcher for the Angels in 2018, which was his development year in the minors. That's how good this kid is. He'll probably be their third or fourth best starter in 2019, and is only expected to make 10 starts. 

Griffin Canning will be a top of the rotation starter eventually, but the Angels are doing the right thing. Theyre building up enough depth at the back end and in AAA and the bullpen to where they'll have team control of him during his best seasons. The Angels weren't competitive last season with all the injuries, and while they're expected to compete in 2019, it isn't their true window which is 2020. I wouldn't bother promoting Griffin Canning until May or June. Keep pushing back that clock while also preparing him to contribute during third window of centention. 

 

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

good comp.  Bauer seems a little nutty to me.  Canning is a bulldog on the mound.  I think Griffin will progress a little more quickly.  With Bauer's stuff, it shouldn't have taken that long.  

That's the comp I made when he was first drafted. It's even more accurate a year and a half later.

[kevinb]

I don’t think he gets less than 13 million a year. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I watched a lot of Canning last year.  Nasty stuff but very unpolished.  It would surprise me if he came up and was instantly consistent.  I think we're gonna see flashes of brilliance mixed in with flashed of beat down.  

Just like Trevor Bauer early on.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I watched a lot of Canning last year.  Nasty stuff but very unpolished.  It would surprise me if he came up and was instantly consistent.  I think we're gonna see flashes of brilliance mixed in with flashes of beat down.  

Sort of like marriage.

Or life.

[Angelsjunky]

45 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Just like Trevor Bauer early on.

Amazingly efficient Craig, Chuck.

(or "Cousin to Craig," as you aren't linking news - just voicing the same opinion made a few posts up)

[Stradling]

Greg

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Amazingly efficient Craig, Chuck.

(or "Cousin to Craig," as you aren't linking news - just voicing the same opinion made a few posts up)

This happens when you respond to a page one post without reading page two first..

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

This happens when you respond to a page one post without reading page two first..

Haha, no doubt. Been there many times.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Greg

Or Graig.

[Billy_Ball]

At this point I don't want Kikuchi.  I want Grandal and a closer/bullpen help.

[Pujols4MVP]

13 hours ago, Second Base said:

I'd still like to see the Angels get him. They were aggressive on Ohtani despite knowing about his damage UCL. Kikuchi shouldn't be much different and we know Eppler has scouted him in Japan before. The Angels could shift into a 6 man rotation to protect his arm, and that would likely serve as a benefit for Harvey, Cahill and Skaggs who all have a less than desirable injury history. Plus, there's already an infrastructure in place in Anaheim to adequately meet the needs of a Japanese player, and there's a Japanese fan base here already. 

Yeah it'd be nice if they get another Japanese player.

[Lou]

10 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

This happens when you respond to a page one post without reading page two first..

white people sure are lazy 

[greginpsca]

Kikuchi has 6 days left to  sign or go back to Japan to play.

 

[Stradling]

He will obviously sign, I am sure he is trying to get the last couple of teams to bid against each other (Boras client). 

[zenmaster]

He will be overpaid and if we sign him we will be left with no $ to fill the rest of our gaping holes.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

He will be overpaid and if we sign him we will be left with no $ to fill the rest of our gaping holes.

@tdawg87 any response?