The shift has ruined Pujols

[Angel Oracle]

50 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Fast forward to May, 2021, Angels @ Astros, and hear Mark Gubicza's voice:

"Check out Albert's career numbers at Minute Maid Park..."

LOL

That one memorable post-season blast was 13 years ago.

[eaterfan]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

There are 32 teams in mlb, By this standard there are exactly 10 1B players in all of MLB that are anything more than role players, 6 that are considered good players, and all of 2 that qualify as stars. 

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Here's a link to Fangraph's position player WAR leaderboard. >2.0 is more than a role player. 72 players meet that threshold and there is still more than 1/4 of a season left. There are currently 95 guys on pace to cross this threshold. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=21,d&page=3_30

[floplag]

Just now, eaterfan said:

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Here's a link to Fangraph's position player WAR leaderboard. >2.0 is more than a role player. 72 players meet that threshold and there is still more than 1/4 of a season left. There are currently 95 guys on pace to cross this threshold. 

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=21,d&page=3_30

I pulled them right off ESPN sortable stats for qualified players at 1B in MLB.  Based on that list, sorted by WAR, Pujols is currently 24 out of 40.   A drop from previous but very much in the middle of the pack

Clicking on your link took me to all players, how does WAR at 3B factor into 1B replacement option?  

[eaterfan]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

I pulled them right off ESPN sortable stats for qualified players at 1B in MLB.  Based on that list, sorted by WAR, Pujols is currently 24 out of 40.   A drop from previous but very much in the middle of the pack

Clicking on your link took me to all players, how does WAR at 3B factor into 1B replacement option?  

Oh. I thought you were talking about all the players. But I already posted Fangraph's leaderboard for 1B. He ranks 22 of 27 qualified.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, eaterfan said:

Oh. I thought you were talking about all the players. But I already posted Fangraph's leaderboard for 1B. He ranks 22 of 27 qualified.

Fangraphs has it different than ESPN, interesting. 
In fact i just looked and the numbers dont even match.  ESPN has him at 0.7 fangraphs at 0.0?  how is that possible?
Something is amiss there simply cannot be that kind of discrepancy.   Literally none of the numbers for anyone match. 

Interestingly enough by the anyone under 2 is just a role players or average major league scale, there are even fewer on fangpphs than espn.  FG has a total of 8 over 2 and only 2 above 4.

[m0nkey]

ESPN could be using BBreference WAR, which has him at 0.7

[floplag]

1 minute ago, m0nkey said:

ESPN could be using BBreference WAR, which has him at 0.7

How can different places use the same state and have a variance?  that makes no sense.  I knew different places had different stats but isnt WAR a standard?  what am i missing here?

 

[axalar]

5 hours ago, eaterfan said:

The shift can't defense a walk. Pujols BB% has decreased from 14.7% to 4.4% this season.

If Pujols were walking at a 10% clip his OBP would be around a reasonable .340

Which would make his line basically the same as Upton’s.

[HaloNArizona]

The shift has ruined many of baseball player....players now a days (for the most part) are pull happy home run hitters.  Gone are the days of hitting the ball the opposite way or heck...how about a bunt up the line.  

Cole drilled a ball to LC field last night that was caught for an out....I was happy.  He drove the ball to LCF.  We need more of that, and less pull happy crap.

[axalar]

What I think is amazing is his belief that he’d hit .290/.300 if the shift was deemed illegal. I’m now in favor of making the shift illegal so Albert has one less excuse once he goes from .255 to .265.

Also, it’s somewhat disappointing that he isn’t concerned with attempting to change his approach. He’d rather just stay the course doing the same thing instead of potentially adding more benefit to the team by trying something new (specifically altering the launch angle). 

[AngelsLakersFan]

25 minutes ago, floplag said:

How can different places use the same state and have a variance?  that makes no sense.  I knew different places had different stats but isnt WAR a standard?  what am i missing here?

 

WAR is more of a construct. It's simply hitting runs above average + defensive runs above average + base running runs above average + replacement level (positional adjustment x games played). Fangraphs and Baseball reference use different inputs. There isn't much debate around offense so those numbers should be close, as should the replacement level / positional adjustment. Where there is a lot of difference is in the defensive component, where fWar and rWar use different defensive stats for this input.

[Dick B Back]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

 

As @Kevinb pointed out, 0 WAR is not "average." It is replacement level - a scrub - someone who can easily be replaced. 

floplag, paying Paul McAnulty $27 million a year is a problem. Change the name to someone who was once great and somehow it seems more palatable. I guess. 

According to Fangraphs:

0-1 WAR Scrub

1-2 WAR Role Player

2-3 WAR Solid Player

3-4 WAR Good Player

4-5 WAR All-Star

5-6 WAR Superstar

6+ WAR MVP

Albert Pujols, year by year:

2001: MVP

2002: Superstar

2003-10: MVP

2011: All-Star

Angels career begins:

2012: Good Player

2013: Scrub

2014: Solid Player

2015: Role Player

2016: Scrub

2017: Scrub

2018: Scrub

So step back and look at what the Angels have gotten out of Pujols: One year as each a Good, Solid, and Role Player, and four years as a Scrub.  Or 6.9 fWAR over 7 years, so about an average of 1 WAR per year.

Tell me again that he's not under-performing. The dude is an absolute disaster. And yes, contract matters.

But but but... 3 million fans.

[Lou]

Arte is the only MLB owner that cares about attendance 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

WAR is more of a construct. It's simply hitting runs above average + defensive runs above average + base running runs above average + replacement level (positional adjustment x games played). Fangraphs and Baseball reference use different inputs. There isn't much debate around offense so those numbers should be close, as should the replacement level / positional adjustment. Where there is a lot of difference is in the defensive component, where fWar and rWar use different defensive stats for this input.

can you please explain this?

[AngelsLakersFan]

12 minutes ago, Lou said:

can you please explain this?

Fangraphs uses Ultimate Zone Rating for its defensive component while Baseball Reference uses Defensive Runs Saved. Subjectively I feel like UZR gives a bit more credit for making more difficult plays while DRS gives more credit for making more plays.

BRef also gives some credit for things like runs / rbis / and saves while using using runs allowed for rating pitchers. Because of this Im not a fan of their version of the stat because it fails as an accounting ledger (which is what fWar generally tries to be).

[Ohtani&Trout]

It seems pretty obvious from those quotes that he plans on playing until his contract expires. Hopefully the new manager benches his ass to speed up this process.

[eaterfan]

47 minutes ago, Ohtani&Trout said:

It seems pretty obvious from those quotes that he plans on playing until his contract expires. Hopefully the new manager benches his ass to speed up this process.

If someone paid me $30 million a year to have dugout seats to every Angels game then I sure as hell wouldn't retire.

[Ohtani&Trout]

32 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

If someone paid me $30 million a year to have dugout seats to every Angels game then I sure as hell wouldn't retire.

I don't think he's playing primarily because of the money (though clearly a factor). I think he's primarily in it to chase records. That clearly means a lot to him. He wants to pad his HR, RBI, hit, doubles, etc. etc. totals and finish ahead of as many players who are currently ahead of him as he can.  He can't do any of that if he's on the bench. 

I love in particular how he says he doesn't want to play to embarrass himself. But that's exactly what he's been doing for a while now and he knows it. He's a shell of what he used to be and is one of the worst players in the game. 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Fangraphs uses Ultimate Zone Rating for its defensive component while Baseball Reference uses Defensive Runs Saved. Subjectively I feel like UZR gives a bit more credit for making more difficult plays while DRS gives more credit for making more plays.

BRef also gives some credit for things like runs / rbis / and saves while using using runs allowed for rating pitchers. Because of this Im not a fan of their version of the stat because it fails as an accounting ledger (which is what fWar generally tries to be).

Thanks!

[IheartLA]

Pujols sucking ruined Pujols

[IheartLA]

I love how they tried to give Albert a little pick me up by saying how many hard hit outs he's made. LOL. The reason other players use that for confidence going forward is that the thinking is it will all even out in the future whereas with Pujols he's the slowest runner in MLB and walks down the line so those are 100% sure to still be outs in the future. In other words it's not supposed to even out because he is one of the few players that hard hits are still easy outs.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

11 hours ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Albert Pujols said he'll know when to retire.

Pujols is under contract through 2021 but insisted that money won't be a factor in whether he continues playing. "The day that I feel like I can't compete in this game anymore, it doesn't matter how much money I'm going to leave on the table," said the former MVP. "To embarrass yourself and not be able to compete—dude, that's not me."

 

The end may actually be coming...

Saying it is one thing. Actually leaving that much cash on the table is quite another.

[BackUpTheTruck]

I am not convinced Matt Thaiss is better than Pujols yet.

[BackUpTheTruck]

Or JMF. I keep forgetting him.

[UndertheHalo]

24 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I am not convinced Matt Thaiss is better than Pujols yet.

What’s your opinion on Ward again ?