Liberal Utopia

[Taylor]

Just now, Tank said:

so does that invalidate it for you?

A little. For a nation "under God," we have a history of doing very ungodly things. For example, the height of Jim Crow was happening when "one nation under God" was added to the pledge.

America is not and has never been a Christian nation. God looks unkindly upon leaders who abuse their power, and the American government has been a consistent stream of very bad folks who do just that.

I honestly don't believe there's such thing as a Christian nation. God is so much bigger than any form of government.

[mtangelsfan]

Meh, so much other stuff to deal with. 
Nothing would change if it disappeared tomorrow.  Nothing will change if it stays.  The squeaky wheel people will always find something to squeak about

[arch stanton]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

A little. For a nation "under God," we have a history of doing very ungodly things. For example, the height of Jim Crow was happening when "one nation under God" was added to the pledge.

America is not and has never been a Christian nation. God looks unkindly upon leaders who abuse their power, and the American government has been a consistent stream of very bad folks who do just that.

I honestly don't believe there's such thing as a Christian nation. God is so much bigger than any form of government.

Know who else says this? Every person in the Middle East

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

Know who else says this? Every person in the Middle East

Yep, theocracy isn't the way to go. Democracy is the best form of government. But it makes me sad when people try to equate Christian values to a government or style of government. 

[Kotchman]

You could say the same about every individual Christian. We have also liberated and fed more people than any nation in history. We have been Israel’s biggest supporter. Obviously you are willing to overlook a lot of Biblical flaws in your liberal ideology. Why are you reluctant to do the same for America?

[Taylor]

6 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Meh, so much other stuff to deal with. 
Nothing would change if it disappeared tomorrow.  Nothing will change if it stays.  The squeaky wheel people will always find something to squeak about

I agree. That's why I'm talking about it on a message board and not expending any additional energy on it.

[Kotchman]

Just now, Taylor said:

Yep, theocracy isn't the way to go. Democracy is the best form of government. But it makes me sad when people try to equate Christian values to a government or style of government. 

Why is that? God clearly defines morality for Jews and Christians. Those laws were implemented in western civilization as a basis for just behavior. I don’t support a government mandate for all things Biblical but the world would be a better place if we all followed scripture. I get the sense your argument is not solely with America but also Biblical teachings. 

[Tank]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

A little. For a nation "under God," we have a history of doing very ungodly things. For example, the height of Jim Crow was happening when "one nation under God" was added to the pledge.

America is not and has never been a Christian nation. God looks unkindly upon leaders who abuse their power, and the American government has been a consistent stream of very bad folks who do just that.

I honestly don't believe there's such thing as a Christian nation. God is so much bigger than any form of government.

this sounds like a very narrow interpretation of what a Christian nation might be.

i don't think it means that everyone who governs acts in a christian way or is guided only by christians standards/principles, and there's a long history of people ignoring biblical principles. in a positive light, i see plenty of churches worshipping freely every week, and lots of charitable christian organizations that are ready, willing, and able to help whenever called upon. in a christian nation, and because of the separation of church and state, leaders can be christian without imposing christian values, and it's a beautiful part of the constitution to guarantee that you and i can freely worship as we choose, if we choose. that seems to be the bigger issue from where i sit.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Obviously, pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic are something that he is not willing to do.

Also, he said Jesus Christ, not God. 

I'm sure Jesus is subservient to God's will and it was Christ that offered the give under Caeser guidence. So, order of operation 

God>Jesus>State

[Blarg]

45 minutes ago, Taylor said:

That line was added to the pledge in the 50s. It wasn't originally there.

And now that it is? 

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm sure Jesus is subservient to God's will and it was Christ that offered the give under Caeser guidence. So, order of operation 

God>Jesus>State

Pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth isn't law. 

[Blarg]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

Pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth isn't law. 

If you think that is what the pledge is about then I can see why you object. 

[Jason]

Y’all are a bunch of commie bastards 

[Kotchman]

1 minute ago, cals said:

 

He isn’t fooling me. His hatred of American history has more to do with his rebellion against the scripture he allegedly believes. It’s inconceivable a Christian doesn’t understand the significance of America as it was founded. His refusal to adhere to the things he knows to be true is likely the reason he left pastoral work and the root cause of his anxiety 

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

If you think that is what the pledge is about then I can see why you object. 

I haven't said a word about what i believe. 

2 hours ago, Lou said:

Obviously, pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic are something that he is not willing to do.

Also, he said Jesus Christ, not God. 

 

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

If you think that is what the pledge is about then I can see why you object. 

I haven't said a word about what i believe. 

2 hours ago, Lou said:

Obviously, pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic are something that he is not willing to do.

Also, he said Jesus Christ, not God. 

 

[Blarg]

I thought I was responding to your statement but obviously you are lifetime these days. 

[St1ck]

5 minutes ago, Kotchman said:

He isn’t fooling me. His hatred of American history has more to do with his rebellion against the scripture he allegedly believes. It’s inconceivable a Christian doesn’t understand the significance of America as it was founded. His refusal to adhere to the things he knows to be true is likely the reason he left pastoral work and the root cause of his anxiety 

Who are you even talking about here? 

[Kotchman]

Just now, St1ck said:

Who are you even talking about here? 

Taylor’s conflict with America really stems from his own rebellion against Biblical teachings. 

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I thought I was responding to your statement but obviously you are lifetime these days. 

Dumb

[Lou]

Just now, Kotchman said:

Taylor’s conflict with America really stems from his own rebellion against Biblical teachings. 

And fabric.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, cals said:

I was having a conversation with my wife last night about the possibility of moving out of state, and we both agreed we needed to move to an urban-close suburb with a high Jewish population.  If it wasn’t so damn cold in the winter we’d already be in the north shore suburbs of Chicago (about 50% Jewish).

Stopped reading at "wife"

[Blarg]

17 minutes ago, cals said:

For fuck sake.  If you guys want this shit as part of our government culture we might as well let the Taliban run things.  There is shit in your book that some Christian ISIS motherfuckers could read literally and start massacring non-believers over.  

Honestly the only thing that’s kept you all from chopping heads off is that your book appears a little cooler with booze and chicks can show cleavage.  Without that the Harvest Crusade would  be a lot more like an actual crusade. By the way, how many people have been murdered in name of your religion?

I think we have room for one more on the list. 

[St1ck]

17 minutes ago, Kotchman said:

Taylor’s conflict with America really stems from his own rebellion against Biblical teachings. 

Who are you to judge another person's faith? 

[Kotchman]

3 minutes ago, St1ck said:

Who are you to judge another person's faith? 

I’m not the judge. However when you object to America based on its lack of Christian values, I do wonder what country has done more in that person’s opinion . As a non believer there is a lot you probably don’t understand. Not because you lack the capacity but likely lack the exposure. One who has been exposed to and believes in the Bible should have the comprehension and confidence to articulate their beliefs. If he is Christian, he certainly lacks the willingness to take a stand when the Bible is in conflict with culture or political platforms. Don’t take this as I’m the second coming of Bill Graham. I’m as flawed as anyone. He could very well be Christian and his nemesis could be adherence to secular beliefs at times. I’m not condemning him.