Just a reminder

[tennischmp]

Pitching wins championships. While it's very exciting that the Angels got Upton and Phillips they both don't pitch. The pitching was and still is a problem. 

[Stradling]

Yes, just not at the level of the hitting problem. 

[Stradling]

We're 27th in the league in OPS and 12th in ERA this year.  

[Glen]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

We're 27th in the league in OPS and 12th in ERA this year.  

Just a reminder.

[tennischmp]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

We're 27th in the league in OPS and 12th in ERA this year.  

That's great and all but in a 1 game playoff or a 5 game series, good pitching is much more important than good hitting. 

[Chuck]

This is why I wanted Verlander.

But like Stradling said, we needed bats too. On paper Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Riddell look good enough. Skaggs just shit the bed last night and now we get Nolasco today.

I totally get what you're saying @tennischmp. We can't have it all though. Next year we have a lot of options at SP in Shoemaker, Tropeano, Barria, N. Smith, Morales, Ramirez to go along with a full season (hopefully) of Richards, Heaney, Bridwell, Skaggs and possibly a FA starting pitcher addition. Plus no Nolasco thank God.

[mancini79]

Pitching may win Championships, but you need to get to the playoffs first. Angels are last in SLG and OPS in the AL. They need help in each game and not 1 in 5 games. Getting 2 bats improves the team more than 1 pitcher.

[tennischmp]

18 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

This is why I wanted Verlander.

But like Stradling said, we needed bats too. On paper Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Riddell look good enough. Skaggs just shit the bed last night and now we get Nolasco today.

I totally get what you're saying @tennischmp. We can't have it all though. Next year we have a lot of options at SP in Shoemaker, Tropeano, Barria, N. Smith, Morales, Ramirez to go along with a full season (hopefully) of Richards, Heaney, Bridwell, Skaggs and possibly a FA starting pitcher addition. Plus no Nolasco thank God.

Chuck, the 4 you named have a combined 164 IP this season

[tennischmp]

5 minutes ago, mancini79 said:

Pitching may win Championships, but you need to get to the playoffs first. Angels are last in SLG and OPS in the AL. They need help in each game and not 1 in 5 games. Getting 2 bats improves the team more than 1 pitcher.

Top 2 pitchers usually go twice in a 5 game series

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, tennischmp said:

Top 2 pitchers usually go twice in a 5 game series

You have to ask yourself, what improves us enough to make the playoffs, Verlander pitching five games or Upton and Phillips playing 28 games.

[Stradling]

Also Verlander would have decimated our farm system, if the asking price was similar to what they got from Houston, and why wouldn't it be.

[tennischmp]

I get it, it helps make the playoffs. Except for me making the playoffs isn't enough. Losing 9-8 in the 1 game playoff is no better than not making the playoffs. You make these moves to win the WS, not just to make the playoffs, because there is a good chance both Upton and Phillips are just for this year. 

[Stradling]

Phillips yes, Upton I'd say there's a 60-75% chance of keeping him, either by not opting out or adding a year to his contract. 

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

We're 27th in the league in OPS and 12th in ERA this year.  

How in the hell are we in the WC hunt?  Color me confused....crazy..

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, DMVol said:

How in the hell are we in the WC hunt?  Color me confused....crazy..

Scioscia sucks. 

[eligrba]

Skaggs has had control problems since returning, which is very concerning not just for this season but for the next season.

This team is not a World Series competing team.  The addition of Upton and Phillips makes the last few weeks more exciting but this season was never about winning a World Series.  I would be happy with a wild card opportunity and finishing ahead of the Mariners.

This team has made amazing strides to improve while still being able to rebuild the farm.  Upton and Phillips may only be here for a month, but they did not cost the Angels much.  It is likely fans would have never seen either player that the Angels traded play for the Angels.

[Blarg]

Verlander would have cost all of the progress the farm system has made. That isn't felt today so you think you are winning, like the Dipoto days, but what you are really doing is insuring you have no future. 

Moving on Verlander doesn't insure a playoff spot and doesn't insure future success because he is at the age pitchers fall off dramatically, far moreso than position players.

While on the other hand paying almost nothing for Upton isn't much of a gamble and could cement the left field problem down while the farm kids develop. It puts a legitimate bat in the Moto spot, the void Hamilton created, for about half of the cost.

This is a five year rather than 30 day plan. It will give the Angels a good chance to reach the playoffs which signals a franchise turnaround while not making it a false start by decimating the farm.

 

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Verlander would have cost all of the progress the farm system has made. That isn't felt today so you think you are winning, like the Dipoto days, but what you are really doing is insuring you have no future. 

Moving on Verlander doesn't insure a playoff spot and doesn't insure future success because he is at the age pitchers fall off dramatically, far moreso than position players.

While on the other hand paying almost nothing for Upton isn't much of a gamble and could cement the left field problem down while the farm kids develop. It puts a legitimate bat in the Moto spot, the void Hamilton created, for about half of the cost.

This is a five year rather than 30 day plan. It will give the Angels a good chance to reach the playoffs which signals a franchise turnaround while not making it a false start by decimating the farm.

 

Great post. 

[tennischmp]

55 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Verlander would have cost all of the progress the farm system has made. That isn't felt today so you think you are winning, like the Dipoto days, but what you are really doing is insuring you have no future. 

Moving on Verlander doesn't insure a playoff spot and doesn't insure future success because he is at the age pitchers fall off dramatically, far moreso than position players.

While on the other hand paying almost nothing for Upton isn't much of a gamble and could cement the left field problem down while the farm kids develop. It puts a legitimate bat in the Moto spot, the void Hamilton created, for about half of the cost.

This is a five year rather than 30 day plan. It will give the Angels a good chance to reach the playoffs which signals a franchise turnaround while not making it a false start by decimating the farm.

 

 I don't disagree the these were great trades and I am only talking about the affect on 2017.  IMO the chances of them winning the WS didn't dramatically improve. Making the playoffs? Sure they have a much better shot. Winning the WS? not so much. 

We can talk about this being a 5 year plan after we see what happens with Upton this off season. Right now it's a 30 day plan to me. 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, tennischmp said:

I get it, it helps make the playoffs. Except for me making the playoffs isn't enough. Losing 9-8 in the 1 game playoff is no better than not making the playoffs. You make these moves to win the WS, not just to make the playoffs, because there is a good chance both Upton and Phillips are just for this year. 

I neverstood how anyone can post such garbage. Its completeky illogical.  Its the equivalent of saying you woukd rather not make tge WS if your just going to lose it.  So since there is a chance we could lose it lets not make tge moves that helps us get there.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Verlander would have cost all of the progress the farm system has made. That isn't felt today so you think you are winning, like the Dipoto days, but what you are really doing is insuring you have no future. 

Moving on Verlander doesn't insure a playoff spot and doesn't insure future success because he is at the age pitchers fall off dramatically, far moreso than position players.

While on the other hand paying almost nothing for Upton isn't much of a gamble and could cement the left field problem down while the farm kids develop. It puts a legitimate bat in the Moto spot, the void Hamilton created, for about half of the cost.

This is a five year rather than 30 day plan. It will give the Angels a good chance to reach the playoffs which signals a franchise turnaround while not making it a false start by decimating the farm.

 

Remember...getting Upton removes Pujols down in the order.  Isnt that alone worth losing Grayson Long?

[beatlesrule]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Also Verlander would have decimated our farm system, if the asking price was similar to what they got from Houston, and why wouldn't it be.

Very much this.  Unless a Verlander trade guaranteed a World Series win, the price was too steep for the Angels.  The Astros could afford to trade the guys they did and it won't hurt them.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, tennischmp said:

On paper Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Riddell look good enough.

who is Riddell?

[floplag]

Hou way overpayed for  Verlander in my opinion.   Im glad we didnmt make such a similar deal and given back all the progress on the farm in the process
Id rather put the money into the bullpen and roll with the starters we have

[tomsred]

16 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

who is Riddell?

It's a Riddle.  (A Riddle is a noun....a question or statement intentionally phrased so as to require ingenuity in ascertaining its answer or meaning, typically presented as a game.)