Trade Target: Gerrit Cole

[disarcina]

been tracking the guy's starts (at least on paper -- Box Scores) - not that impressed and as a Boras client he'll demand a fortune. 

I wouldn't spend that on him.

If his value time with Pirates is running out, he'll likely be traded as a rental to some contender before deadline and then pursue F/A in off-season.

I don't see Halos being part of playoff push -- so no need for us to consider him as a rental.

 

[AngelStew43]

I would also be interested if Miami is moving Yelich.  Watched that series against us, he's a good CF, with a career .367 OBP.  He'd help our offense, and close the revolving door in our outfield.

[ukyah]

32 minutes ago, Tyler said:

This is true, so no need to be disrespectful like you were in your original post.

Anyways, perhaps this is where you are misunderstood. Cole has two more years of arb eligible seasons and wouldn't be a FA until 2020. 

Our farm system sucks and the 'top' guys we do have would barely show up Top 10 of any other organization. Setting our farm system back, is literally, the equivalent of going to 29th worst to 30th. Big deal. Nothing will change until Swanson has a couple of drafts under his belt. 

disrespectful? thicken your skin. i said i disagreed with what you said in this thread, specifically. i still do. every point i made remains valid.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Tyler said:

This is true, so no need to be disrespectful like you were in your original post.

Anyways, perhaps this is where you are misunderstood. Cole has two more years of arb eligible seasons and wouldn't be a FA until 2020. 

Our farm system sucks and the 'top' guys we do have would barely show up Top 10 of any other organization. Setting our farm system back, is literally, the equivalent of going to 29th worst to 30th. Big deal. Nothing will change until Swanson has a couple of drafts under his belt. 

You're putting far too much stock in these "rankings". 

But do you want to know what played a huge role in making our farm system so bad in the first place? The Dan Haren and Greinke trades. Trades that netted the Angels exactly 0 playoff appearances. 

We're finally taking steps in the right direction, and after another (hopefully) good draft this year, we'll be another big step closer to having a good system again. It just doesn't make sense to me to take 2 steps back for Gerrit Cole.

[Tyler]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

You're putting far too much stock in these "rankings". 

But do you want to know what played a huge role in making our farm system so bad in the first place? The Dan Haren and Greinke trades. Trades that netted the Angels exactly 0 playoff appearances. 

We're finally taking steps in the right direction, and after another (hopefully) good draft this year, we'll be another big step closer to having a good system again. It just doesn't make sense to me to take 2 steps back for Gerrit Cole.

I will go with signing CJ Wilson and Hamilton, but I will give you credit for not mentioning Teixeira considering we were able to get comp for having him a full season. 

Signing FA comp guys is what set our farm system back, not to mention misses like drafting kids from Georgia... Cowart, the two OF's, or Green from Kentucky, or a basketball player with two pitches with our early picks.

I am of the camp that believes we need to show Trout we are all in while he is under contract. If he leaves, we will have plenty of time to develop a system with our run of inevitable #1 overall picks...

 

[tdawg87]

I don't know why I would mention Teix considering they only gave up 1 prospect for him. But funny enough, one of the comp picks they got for him was used on Randal Grichuk, whom they used as a throw-in for Fernando fucking Salas in the Freese trade. 

But anyway, losing draft picks was another big reason the system got into the shape it was in. There's no doubt about that. That said, I don't see why you seem to hold draft picks in a higher regard than already established prospects. Especially when, as you pointed out, they made several swings and misses with early picks under the same regime. 

Jones and Thaiss are legit prospects (Barria now, as well). Thaiss could end up impacting the team as soon as next year. My vote is to keep them. 

Edited June 5, 2017 by tdawg87

[Docwaukee]

Cole is a nice pitcher but I'm not sure He's the ace that you consider him to be Tyler.  We've got a similar player with a similar name.  The reason I bring up Richards is that I feel like Cole might have something wrong with him considering his last 200 innings have been pretty mediocre.  

Even still, I think he's gonna command quite the prospect bounty and it will be a premium at the deadline.  I don't feel like the team is good enough to warrant taking a chance on him at this point.  

The Simmons trade is a good template for giving up Thaiss and others.  If we are going to move prospects for a front line starter, I would rather wait till the off season and target a guy like Archer (4 more years of control) or Danny Duffy (4 more years of control).  Honestly, there aren't really any front line starters I see being available any time soon.  

Really our best hope is to turn out #10 pick into that guy.  Or, move guys like Norris, Maybin, Escobar, and a few others at the deadline for a couple of higher upside low level guys and hope they turn a corner in the second half.  Then move some of them for pitching help in the off season.  

I would like to see if we can get some guys healthy before I burn a bunch of prospects on a guy with 2 years of control.  If that happens then I'd be more inclined to consider a big trade after the 2018 season assuming the team shows some promise next year. 

Right now, I'd be looking to piecemeal sell as opposed to buy.  

[Blarg]

Why do we need Cole, we've got Fister.

 

By the way, where the hell is Fister? Haven't heard a word since the signing.

[tdawg87]

I'm assuming he stubbed his toe on the way to the john and died of liver failure. May he rest in peace. 

[DMVol]

15 minutes ago, Blarg said:

.....By the way, where the hell is Fister? Haven't heard a word since the signing.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/06/01/angels-notes-cameron-maybin-hits-the-dl/

[GrittyVeterans]

Cole has had one very good season and a bunch of meh other than that. 

 

He's also from Newport Beach, so why give up assets when you'll probably have a decent shot at signing him via free agency?

[Brent Maguire]

You want Gerrit Cole? Be prepared to give up Jahmai Jones, Matt Thaiss, Jaime Barria and Matt Shoemaker/Tyler Skaggs. There are teams out there, such as the Astros and Yankees, who have far more to offer than the Angels without depleting their whole system. Very slim chance the Angels are even rumored to be talking with the Pirates. 

[nate]

On 6/4/2017 at 1:40 PM, Tyler said:

I would literally trade them all in the farm for him. Thaiss, Jones, Ward, whatever...

Nobody ever learns

[Chuck]

12 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Cole has had one very good season and a bunch of meh other than that. 

 

He's also from Newport Beach, so why give up assets when you'll probably have a decent shot at signing him via free agency?

^ This

[Tank]

23 hours ago, Blarg said:

By the way, where the hell is Fister? Haven't heard a word since the signing.

he was recently seen in some kind of in-house promotional video at a local mcdonalds . . .

[Taylor]

On 6/5/2017 at 10:11 AM, Blarg said:

By the way, where the hell is Fister? Haven't heard a word since the signing.

He was spotted on the 5, and then in line at Del Taco.

[Angel Oracle]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 4:09 PM, Tyler said:

 

A lot of money coming off the books in the near seasons.

Agree (some $50-$60 million AAV eliminated 5 months from now), BUT, they can't be cleaning out their farm system anymore.   Give it a couple of more drafts and signing  2-3 solid Latin American prospects, and then any trade like this one can BEGIN to be discussed. 

[Lou]

thoughts?

[Second Base]

Well, the Astros got two years of Cole for....

Joe Musgrove - #4 starter with #2 upside.  Former 1st round pick. 

Colin Moran - Light hitting starting 3B.  Former 1st round pick. 

Michael Feliz - Not a very good reliever. Even at the time of the trade he wasn't very good. 

Jason Martin - A future fourth outfielder. 

___________________________________________________________

So even at the time of the trade, Musgrove and Moran were seen as projects, not the sort that would headline a trade.  The Angels really didn't have the goods to match the trade at the time and still maintain a farm system.  If they were to make that trade today, I think an equivalent would likely be something like Jaime Barria, Taylor Ward, Noe Ramirez and Brennon Lund.  Good deal for the Astros.  For the Pirates, I think the success fo it ultimately hinges on Musgrove and Moran.  If they never improve beyond where they currently are, then it's a terrible trade for them.  If they both improve, as expected, it becomes more of a mediocre return.  There really doesn't seem to be a lottery here for the Pirates, the trade has very little chance of favoring them long term. 

But I think this fits the bill with many teams that trade off good players.  Quite often, the return seems enticing at the time, but ultimately doesn't really work out. 

[VariousCrap]

5 hours ago, Lou said:

thoughts?

 

Cole would be the ace of the Angels staff.

[ettin]

On 6/4/2017 at 9:26 PM, ettin said:

We are slipping out of contention fast and he won't help us this season in all likelihood so trading for him at the deadline will not only be extra pricey but will do nothing for our season in 2017. There are other teams with a lot more prospect capital that we have ready to pounce on him. It is extremely low probability that we would want or could acquire him (think like less than 1%, a perfect alignment of Pirates needs to our offerings).

 

7 hours ago, Lou said:

thoughts?

I already gave mine! 

[Docwaukee]

I wasn't big on Cole at the time enough to sacrifice our farm for him.  Knowing that Houston was able to give up spare parts to get him made it all that much more painful yet we didn't even have those spare parts.  Clearly, the Bucs were looking for major league ready talent and we were having enough trouble finding major league players for the major league level let alone maintaining a surplus.  

It's a good lesson on why to let your farm develop.  Musgrove was a fringe to 100 and Moran was almost 3 years removed from being in anyone's top 100.  A big league ready prospect who projects to be an average regular is likely worth more in trade than a top 100 guy in A+ with a higher ceiling.