Angels trade Jett bandy to Brewers (Source)

[Jeff Fletcher]

1. Jett Bandy hit 173 with a 196 OBP in the last two months (Yes, that's a small sample, but so was the 2 months before that made you love him. If a guy has 2 good months and 2 bad ones, whatever comes last - as the league has seen him - is probably closer to the truth.)

2. The Angels got 2 players for him. 

 

[Docwaukee]

I love when a guy we drafted comes up, develops before our eyes, and succeeds.  There is nothing more satisfying besides perhaps picking up some scrub off the scrap heap and watching them kill it for us while another team scratches their head.  

For that reason, seeing them get rid of Jett before he has a chance to realize his potential is a bit disappointing.  

That said, upon seeing Bandy's swing and approach, he was never going to be what we wanted him to.  If his deficiencies to come are that obvious to me, I can only imagine how obvious they were to people who do this for a living.  

They got a strong look at him.  They saw how he handled the staff.  His pitch calling.  His framing.  His defense otherwise.  His approach.  The holes in his swing.  His work ethic.  His potential.  And they traded him for a more established guy.  That tells me something.  Even though I was interested in seeing him develop, I had my concerns about how far that was going to go after seeing him play.  

Eppler is betting on the fact that the teams same reservations weren't growing pains but a lack of projectable talent.  

Most of all, it's just not that big of a deal.  

[arch stanton]

I have to agree about the swing. It's just too long. He'll hit some home runs but it'll be tough for him to hit consistently.

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 hours ago, nehushtan said:

Such a stupid move. It has Scioscia written all over it.

Except that sosh helped raise bandy...

[LegendaryPujols#5]

I had the Perez - Bandy combo in my fantasy AL-only team... I can't see the improvement. 

[totdprods]

I don't think it's been mentioned here yet, but Tony Sanchez shouldn't be overlooked either. He very well could produce something similar to Bandy should he be called into action. 

[nikkachez]

28 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don't think it's been mentioned here yet, but Tony Sanchez shouldn't be overlooked either. He very well could produce something similar to Bandy should he be called into action. 

 

Not bad depth, better than Graterol, in my opinion. League average/replacement level, not bad for a 3rd string veteran catcher in AAA. Still dying to know if they want to add another catcher...

[totdprods]

32 minutes ago, nikkachez said:

Not bad depth, better than Graterol, in my opinion. League average/replacement level, not bad for a 3rd string veteran catcher in AAA. Still dying to know if they want to add another catcher...

He's apparently a very solid defender, and has shown as much offensively as Bandy has in around the same amount of time, and he's only 28. Between him and Maldonado, I feel like Bandy was effectively replaced without really losing much beyond a couple years of club control, which, for a likely back-up catcher, isn't that important. 

I don't think they're going to add another catcher BUT, much like with the acquisitions of Maybin, Chavez, and Espinosa, Eppler has addressed a need very quickly and there's enough depth on the FA market for those respective positions he can wait out the offseason and see how things play out. If late January hits and Saltalamacchia, Wieters, Hundley, Navarro, Crisp, Revere, Pagan, Saunders, Utley, Drew, Coghlan, Niese, Cahill, Feldman, Holland, are all still looking for work, their price tags could drop and most of those could theoretically still fill an important role on the team. We don't need those guys, but we could find a common ground as ST nears.

[nikkachez]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He's apparently a very solid defender, and has shown as much offensively as Bandy has in around the same amount of time, and he's only 28. Between him and Maldonado, I feel like Bandy was effectively replaced without really losing much beyond a couple years of club control, which, for a likely back-up catcher, isn't that important. 

I don't think they're going to add another catcher BUT, much like with the acquisitions of Maybin, Chavez, and Espinosa, Eppler has addressed a need very quickly and there's enough depth on the FA market for those respective positions he can wait out the offseason and see how things play out. If late January hits and Saltalamacchia, Wieters, Hundley, Navarro, Crisp, Revere, Pagan, Saunders, Utley, Drew, Coghlan, Niese, Cahill, Feldman, Holland, are all still looking for work, their price tags could drop and most of those could theoretically still fill an important role on the team. We don't need those guys, but we could find a common ground as ST nears.

 

I think they'll definitely sign a fourth outfielder, if they wanted to replace Pennington with Stephen Drew as the UTIF, that'd be sweet as well. I think we'll definitely see a fourth outfielder and pen arm signed soon, another catcher and SP/swingman could also be on the agenda depending on how everything else shakes out. 

[Adam]

Maybe Maldonado's approach is perfect for Anaheim's plate alignment. 

[totdprods]

13 minutes ago, nikkachez said:

I think they'll definitely sign a fourth outfielder, if they wanted to replace Pennington with Stephen Drew as the UTIF, that'd be sweet as well. I think we'll definitely see a fourth outfielder and pen arm signed soon, another catcher and SP/swingman could also be on the agenda depending on how everything else shakes out. 

Depending on Pujols' health, Marte could start the season at 1B/DH and be sent back to SLC when Pujols returns if they opt to bring Utley, Moss, Drew, Saunders on board with Cliff still on the roster. Conversely, Cliff or Utley/Drew/Moss/etc could be axed when Pujols returns too. I'm in no way supporting that thinking as I'm a big Marte fan, but I do trust Eppler and I would not be against him taking advantage of any potential late offseason bargains on role players if the opportunity presents itself, be it in the form of a 4th OF, a catcher that bumps Perez to SLC, a left-handed or switch-hitting UT IF with some thump, etc.

[ELEVEN]

Just spend the rest on the pen.

[Hubs]

21 minutes ago, ELEVEN said:

Just spend the rest on the pen.

The pen is not that bad. It's not flashy but there are some solid pieces there. Last year it was overworked, because the starters averaged 5.41 innings a game. That needs to move up by one full inning. At least. 

How many games did the starter go 7 full innings? Not very many. 

And we got blown out a lot, so the relievers pitched a lot of innings, when they were not close. 

Bailey was great in a limited sample. Street was awful, but hopefully can bounce back. Bedrosian was great. Alvarez was good. JC Ramirez was pretty good after we acquired him. Delois Guerra was pretty decent. Middleton is close with a great fastball. 

Morin was pretty solid, because his FIP was way better than his ERA. Same goes for Alvarez, and Ramirez was the opposite.

One more solid veteran piece, to replace essentially Salas and Smith, would be legit. Two would be fantastic. 

[Chuck]

33 minutes ago, ELEVEN said:

Just spend the rest on the pen.

and a speedy 4th OF. 

[ELEVEN]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

and a speedy 4th OF. 

Is PBJ available?

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, ELEVEN said:

Is PBJ available?

Yes but there are faster options with better stolen base skills and the ability to hit left-handed.

[Pucknut22]

Angels collecting .200 hitters. GM's just laughing at the Angels management.
 

[Jig Stew]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

1. Jett Bandy hit 173 with a 196 OBP in the last two months (Yes, that's a small sample, but so was the 2 months before that made you love him. If a guy has 2 good months and 2 bad ones, whatever comes last - as the league has seen him - is probably closer to the truth.)

2. The Angels got 2 players for him. 

 

Always and forever the voice of reason.. what would this site do without you Mr. Fletcher

[Docwaukee]

48 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The pen is not that bad. It's not flashy but there are some solid pieces there. Last year it was overworked, because the starters averaged 5.41 innings a game. That needs to move up by one full inning. At least. 

How many games did the starter go 7 full innings? Not very many. 

And we got blown out a lot, so the relievers pitched a lot of innings, when they were not close. 

Bailey was great in a limited sample. Street was awful, but hopefully can bounce back. Bedrosian was great. Alvarez was good. JC Ramirez was pretty good after we acquired him. Delois Guerra was pretty decent. Middleton is close with a great fastball. 

Morin was pretty solid, because his FIP was way better than his ERA. Same goes for Alvarez, and Ramirez was the opposite.

One more solid veteran piece, to replace essentially Salas and Smith, would be legit. Two would be fantastic. 

I guess I just disagree with how a bullpen is supposed to work.  To me, a bullpen isn't there to fill the gaps when a starter gets tired.  They aren't just a collection of guys who didn't have good enough stuff to start.  Or at least they shouldn't be.  They should be those two pitch guys with swing and miss stuff who didn't have the length or third pitch to be an effective starter.  We have one guy that fits the mold in Bedrosian.  

Situationally, your pen is supposed to be better than your SP.  I have never understood the philosophy of letting a starter face a lineup for the 3rd time just because you want to have them eat innings.  Last year was difficult because of the injuries and I get that.  But we are entering the season with our top two starters coming off injury, our third starter is also recently off injury and hasn't pitched more than 150 innings in a season, and our 4th and 5th spots are an audition of guys off the scrap heap who have either had trouble staying healthy or haven't been effective because of the exposure factor of trying to get through the lineup an additional time.  You know your starting point for 2017 is going to be that the bullpen is going to get used a ton.  You just aren't going to get significant length from your starters.  Yet here we go with a pen that is filled with a collection of guys who don't miss bats and frankly just don't have the type of stuff it takes to get those meaningful outs in the 6th thru 9th innings.  Maybe improving the defense will negate some of that, but to me, it's a fools errand.  

In the past, saber folks poo-pooed the thought that a dominant bullpen was necessary and that spending money or talent on it was a waste.

Now you have pretty much every single team as being ultra saber savvy and look what's happening.  Teams are spending boatloads of cash and prospects to obtain dominant relievers.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that they've mathematically figured out that it does matter.  It used to be easier to fix a bullpen than any other facet of a team.  So I guess the point is moot in that even if there was any intention of trying to fix the pen, there is no way to realize that previously undervalued way to improve your team.  

Outside of Trout maintaining his HOF level of performance, the most important thing to this team is Richards, Shoe and Skaggs making 30+ starts.  I would put the odds of that happening at slim to none.  Do you think we have a better chance of succeeding by hoping those guys give us 6-7 and then when they get injured or tire out plugging in Banuelos, Campos, Pounders or Wright?  Or if we told them to give us 5 strong innings and we'll hand the ball over to Kenley Jansen, Neftali Feliz, and Cam Bedrosian as opposed to Mike Morin, Deolis Guerra and Huston Street.  

The pen is set up to be exposed again and this time we are letting it happen with full awareness.  

[Angel Oracle]

They need to sign Feliz at the least, plus a 4th OF like Revere.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I guess I just disagree with how a bullpen is supposed to work.  To me, a bullpen isn't there to fill the gaps when a starter gets tired.  They aren't just a collection of guys who didn't have good enough stuff to start.  Or at least they shouldn't be.  They should be those two pitch guys with swing and miss stuff who didn't have the length or third pitch to be an effective starter.  We have one guy that fits the mold in Bedrosian.  

Situationally, your pen is supposed to be better than your SP.  I have never understood the philosophy of letting a starter face a lineup for the 3rd time just because you want to have them eat innings.  Last year was difficult because of the injuries and I get that.  But we are entering the season with our top two starters coming off injury, our third starter is also recently off injury and hasn't pitched more than 150 innings in a season, and our 4th and 5th spots are an audition of guys off the scrap heap who have either had trouble staying healthy or haven't been effective because of the exposure factor of trying to get through the lineup an additional time.  You know your starting point for 2017 is going to be that the bullpen is going to get used a ton.  You just aren't going to get significant length from your starters.  Yet here we go with a pen that is filled with a collection of guys who don't miss bats and frankly just don't have the type of stuff it takes to get those meaningful outs in the 6th thru 9th innings.  Maybe improving the defense will negate some of that, but to me, it's a fools errand.  

In the past, saber folks poo-pooed the thought that a dominant bullpen was necessary and that spending money or talent on it was a waste.

Now you have pretty much every single team as being ultra saber savvy and look what's happening.  Teams are spending boatloads of cash and prospects to obtain dominant relievers.  What does that tell you?  It tells me that they've mathematically figured out that it does matter.  It used to be easier to fix a bullpen than any other facet of a team.  So I guess the point is moot in that even if there was any intention of trying to fix the pen, there is no way to realize that previously undervalued way to improve your team.  

Outside of Trout maintaining his HOF level of performance, the most important thing to this team is Richards, Shoe and Skaggs making 30+ starts.  I would put the odds of that happening at slim to none.  Do you think we have a better chance of succeeding by hoping those guys give us 6-7 and then when they get injured or tire out plugging in Banuelos, Campos, Pounders or Wright?  Or if we told them to give us 5 strong innings and we'll hand the ball over to Kenley Jansen, Neftali Feliz, and Cam Bedrosian as opposed to Mike Morin, Deolis Guerra and Huston Street.  

The pen is set up to be exposed again and this time we are letting it happen with full awareness.  

I'd much rather my starter gave me a complete game, than have to go to a pen in the 6th. Because with very few exceptions, your best pitchers are more likely to be your starters. Now Richards, Shoemaker, and Nolasco averaging 6-7 quality innings per start, is better than letting Scioscia pick and choose relievers for the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th innings. Skaggs I expect to go closer to 6 innings per start, and Chavez around the same. Meyer, Pounders, Campos, Smith, Banuelos, etc. will likely get starts as well. Yet, spending money on Ivan Nova or another mid-tier starter is not going to be as effective as adding a high-end reliever, I'll give you that. 

However, I think we have three guys that would be a part of any bullpen, maybe not in their same roles, but are no doubt quality guys (Bedrosian, Alvarez, Street) and three more solid ones (Bailey, Morin, Guerra).  Having 7 outstanding relievers would be great, but I don't see that happening. 

Also, a pen is very fluid. And I think we should add one guy maybe two.

My pen right now is likely Street, Bedrosian, Alvarez, Bailey, Guerra, Ramirez, Morin. Is it the best pen? No, but they'll likely use at least 10 pitchers in the pen, probably more.

[Angel Oracle]

Morin's ERA since 2015 (over 5.00) is weird.   His WHIP is generally in the 1.20s, and he doesn't give up a lot of HRs or BBs.   He also K's close to 1 per inning.

Alvarez was solid in 2015 (1.20s WHIP, mid 3.00s ERA, 1 K/inning).   But although his ERA stayed in the mid 3.00s in 2016, his WHIP exploded up to 1.50 and his Ks decreased considerably (51 Ks in 71 innings).   Can we trust Alvarez going forward? 

[ettin]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Morin's ERA since 2015 (over 5.00) is weird.   His WHIP is generally in the 1.20s, and he doesn't give up a lot of HRs or BBs.   He also K's close to 1 per inning.

Alvarez was solid in 2015 (1.20s WHIP, mid 3.00s ERA, 1 K/inning).   But although his ERA stayed in the mid 3.00s in 2016, his WHIP exploded up to 1.50 and his Ks decreased considerably (51 Ks in 71 innings).   Can we trust Alvarez going forward? 

Although you are correct that in a comparable amount of innings between 2015 and 2016 his total strikeouts dropped from 59 to 51, he also reduced how many hitters he walked from 23 to 15. Alvarez's K/9 rate vs. RHH's actually improved from 7.26 in 2015 to 9.42 in 2016. However against LHH's it went down from 8.89 in 2015 to 6.59 in 2016. However in both cases there were corresponding lower shifts in BB/9 rate. It's hard to compare relievers on a year to year basis simply because of the total sample size of innings you are comparing. It has some use but comparing one year to another should be taken with a grain of salt because relievers have volatile changes in performance over short or medium sized periods.

As I said in the Bullpen primer I think Jose has a bad reputation label that is in stark contrast to his above average performance in 2016, particularly in light of the fact that he ran pretty high BABIP's which leads me to believe that he can improve fairly significantly in 2017 especially now that our total team defense has improved fairly dramatically which should benefit a pitcher like Alvarez who puts the ball into the air more vs. LHH's (to all fields) and puts the ball on the ground more to RHH's, primarily to the 3B/SS side of the field and up the middle.

I actually am looking forward to what he and Morin can do this year. Maybe that's just the eternal optimist in me?

[Hubs]

20 minutes ago, ettin said:

Although you are correct that in a comparable amount of innings between 2015 and 2016 his total strikeouts dropped from 59 to 51, he also reduced how many hitters he walked from 23 to 15. Alvarez's K/9 rate vs. RHH's actually improved from 7.26 in 2015 to 9.42 in 2016. However against LHH's it went down from 8.89 in 2015 to 6.59 in 2016. However in both cases there were corresponding lower shifts in BB/9 rate. It's hard to compare relievers on a year to year basis simply because of the total sample size of innings you are comparing. It has some use but comparing one year to another should be taken with a grain of salt because relievers have volatile changes in performance over short or medium sized periods.

As I said in the Bullpen primer I think Jose has a bad reputation label that is in stark contrast to his above average performance in 2016, particularly in light of the fact that he ran pretty high BABIP's which leads me to believe that he can improve fairly significantly in 2017 especially now that our total team defense has improved fairly dramatically which should benefit a pitcher like Alvarez who puts the ball into the air more vs. LHH's (to all fields) and puts the ball on the ground more to RHH's, primarily to the 3B/SS side of the field and up the middle.

I actually am looking forward to what he and Morin can do this year. Maybe that's just the eternal optimist in me?

Alvarez FIP was a great 3.11, and his WHIP went back up closer to his previous number. It's also probably a symptom of pitching in games the Angels had already lost.

[Troll Daddy]

I was concerned about Jett and Perez as our catchers. The FO had mentioned it was also a concern. I just thought the FO would get a catcher who can hit. 

RIP Jett