Angels trade Jett bandy to Brewers (Source)

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Wow! What a canon. 

pachelbel's or  35mm?

[ELEVEN]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Before I know who is coming back, I have to be honest that Bandy was one of the players that was starting to be fun to root for.  Jett is a cool name and I admit I didn't go to the fridge when he was at bat.  Hopefully the return is good.

You can go to the fridge when Espinosa bats.

[ukyah]

i liked bandy from the little i saw of him. i'll refrain from losing my shit, but superficially this doesn't seem like a good value trade.

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 minutes ago, SigBaby said:

Especially with the state of this staff. It's not like we'll be playing a lot of 2-1, 3-2 games this staff is going to give up runs regardless of how good the defense is.

We may just end up testing that theory. The projections still like this team, and with some extra borderline calls and a shit ton of balls in play (cuz the staff sucks) we just might beat those projections. 

[Docwaukee]

24 minutes ago, ukyah said:

pachelbel's or  35mm?

pirate ship. 

[Troll Daddy]

In fairness ... Seattle wanted him to pitch when he was there. It's possible that Eppler will turn him into our future closer. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

I'm kinda trying to understand the purpose of this trade. Gagnon I supposed could go back to starting. He could also keep transitioning to relieving (maybe they saw some great talent in his 2016 relief appearances). Maldonado isn't super superior to Bandy in my mind and is controlled for less time. He is a veteran which is what I thought they would do but this wasn't quite the way I thought they'd go but as I also said there are so many damn permutations and paths it is like a pick-your-own-adventure trying to guess what they will do.

I think it's the opposite.  5.29 era as a reliever is 47.2ip.  As a starter (one start early in the year, one toward the end, and then starts in his last three appearances) he threw 20.2ip with a 2.61 era and 19k, 7bb and 14h.    

So let's dive into this guys numbers a repertoire a bit:

He was on Sickels 'others of interest' list at the start of 2015.  Milwaukee has a deep system so he was probably in their 25-30 range at that point.  He was BA #27 in 2015.  

So his 2012 season was solid in A/A+ with a 2.83 era.  Solid peripherals

2013 was a struggle but then he righted the ship as a 24 yo in AA with slightly above average for league 3.97 era 

In 2015, he got his first taste of Colorado Springs.  A pitching environment that is 20% worse vs lefties and 10% worse vs righties than our very own Smith's Ballpark where the bees play in SLC.  It's among the worst places to pitch in all of baseball.  Granted, he got pounded, but I'll get into that in a second.  

In 2016, he was converted to relief pitching until the end of the season where he made 3 starts.  He was much better with a 2.96 FIP at AA and 3.70 FIP in AAA.  

Even still, his bb rate at AAA hasn't been great but his k rate went to 10.1/9 this last year.  Also, his ground ball rate went to 52.2% this year.  hmmm interesting.  

So by his scouting report per baseball america, he's 88-92 fb with good life, a good curve, a fringe avg change and a cutter vs. lefties.  That was as of 2014.  But magically, he conjured a 52.2% ground ball rate in 2016 when he was previously in the high 30's.  I smell a new pitch.  Probably a sinker (pun intended).  

Here's the other thing.  The guy rights the shit a bit in AA and then goes to the most toxic pitching environment in almost all of baseball.  A guy who relies on command and movement even though he's got reasonable velocity.  

Does that sound like anyone we know?  

This is an Eppler special.  A peanut extraordinaire.  I bet he got a full chub when he got them to include this guy.  

[ettin]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think it's the opposite.  5.29 era as a reliever is 47.2ip.  As a starter (one start early in the year, one toward the end, and then starts in his last three appearances) he threw 20.2ip with a 2.61 era and 19k, 7bb and 14h.    

So let's dive into this guys numbers a repertoire a bit:

He was on Sickels 'others of interest' list at the start of 2015.  Milwaukee has a deep system so he was probably in their 25-30 range at that point.  He was BA #27 in 2015.  

So his 2012 season was solid in A/A+ with a 2.83 era.  Solid peripherals

2013 was a struggle but then he righted the ship as a 24 yo in AA with slightly above average for league 3.97 era 

In 2015, he got his first taste of Colorado Springs.  A pitching environment that is 20% worse vs lefties and 10% worse vs righties than our very own Smith's Ballpark where the bees play in SLC.  It's among the worst places to pitch in all of baseball.  Granted, he got pounded, but I'll get into that in a second.  

In 2016, he was converted to relief pitching until the end of the season where he made 3 starts.  He was much better with a 2.96 FIP at AA and 3.70 FIP in AAA.  

Even still, his bb rate at AAA hasn't been great but his k rate went to 10.1/9 this last year.  Also, his ground ball rate went to 52.2% this year.  hmmm interesting.  

So by his scouting report per baseball america, he's 88-92 fb with good life, a good curve, a fringe avg change and a cutter vs. lefties.  That was as of 2014.  But magically, he conjured a 52.2% ground ball rate in 2016 when he was previously in the high 30's.  I smell a new pitch.  Probably a sinker (pun intended).  

Here's the other thing.  The guy rights the shit a bit in AA and then goes to the most toxic pitching environment in almost all of baseball.  A guy who relies on command and movement even though he's got reasonable velocity.  

Does that sound like anyone we know?  

This is an Eppler special.  A peanut extraordinaire.  I bet he got a full chub when he got them to include this guy.  

Very interesting thanks for digging that up so I could focus on dumping 3 gigs of data to the government, lol!

Okay so it makes a lot more sense to me now I really just glanced at his numbers and didn't dig deep like this so great work Doc!

[WeatherWonk]

Maldonado will be a free agent in 2019. So, we have him for two years.

I would have preferred to see how Bandy developed. I'm just a little bit tired of seeing young players from our system leave and then get good (Segura, Trumbo, Napoli, Morales, O'Day, Grichuk). Having such a bad farm system is one thing. To have traded away all this talent is almost as hard to take. Bandy could be like that.

Maldonado will give us solid work behind the plate and will be a black hole in the lineup. Period. Then, he will be gone after two years.

I'd say that pitcher is the key to this trade, too.

[Stradling]

A black hole that gets on base 33% of the time.  

[NachoPop]

23 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

I would have preferred to see how Bandy developed. I'm just a little bit tired of seeing young players from our system leave and then get good (Segura, Trumbo, Napoli, Morales, O'Day, Grichuk). Having such a bad farm system is one thing. To have traded away all this talent is almost as hard to take. Bandy could be like that.

 

They can always sign Conger back to replace him. He got traded away so he must've got good by now

[Angel Oracle]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

A black hole that gets on base 33% of the time.  

And shows some power.

[Brent Maguire]

My first reaction to the trade was why? 

Maldonado is definitely valuable and is probably a good backup catcher for any team in baseball. He is an elite pitch framer who throws out 35% of runners, basically a complete defensive package. Offensively, the guy has literally been all over the place, ranging from near league average for 2 seasons, below average but useful for another season and absolutely horrible for 2 other seasons. Last year, his OBP went way up but he saw a big increase in intentional walks, most likely due to him batting ahead of the pitcher. Realistically, he's still a guy who will walk 9% of the time(career average), not 13.8% of the time(2016). No meaningful platoon splits so the idea of adding another catcher and trading Perez doesn't add up either. 

Another aspect I think Eppler is considering is using him in a more prominent role. The guy was a backup for years because of Lucroy taking the majority of the starts, which capped Maldonado's career high games played at 76. If you believe in the pitch framing and he produces offensively near his 2016 level over 100ish games, he could be a 1.5-2 win player for dirt cheap. Over 2 years, it's possible he provides some nice value. 

My biggest issue is how much better is Maldonado to warrant trading 5 years of Bandy for 2 years of Maldonado? I think Bandy can be a 1-1.5 win guy yearly, especially since he's in the middle of his prime. There may be room for improvement but his minor league track record and scouting reports indicate he's probably a solid backup/platoon catcher and not an everyday guy. 5 years of cheap 1-1.5 WAR production is nice but not irreplaceable through free agency.

Andrew Gagnon seems to have the stuff and command to succeed but hasn't seen the results. Solid 89-93 mph sinker, above average slider and fringe CH/CB with above average command. He looks like another reclamation project Eppler wants to take a chance on. Too much pitching isn't a bad thing, especially with the rotation concerns for this team.

I think this comes down to Eppler really going balls out on this defensive approach AND using Maldonado to help steal strikes for a potentially below average pitching staff. There's no doubt this Angels team is looking like an elite defensive unit with Maldonado on board now. I'm not super upset about the trade or anything but it's the first trade Eppler has made so far where I really had to question it a bit. Even the Simmons trade made a ton of sense to me hours after the trade occurred. 

[Jobu]

23 minutes ago, Stradling said:

A black hole that gets on base 33% of the time.  

30% when you take out the IBB's he would never get in the AL. 

[IIIII]

I'm so tired of the decision making with this team. Bandy had a legit future and we trade him for nobodies. Fucking garbage.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, IIIII said:

I'm so tired of the decision making with this team. Bandy had a legit future and we trade him for nobodies. Fucking garbage.

And if Bandy turns out to be another over rated prospect I'm sure you'll come back on here and admit you were wrong.

[Billy_Ball]

4 minutes ago, IIIII said:

I'm so tired of the decision making with this team. Bandy had a legit future and we trade him for nobodies. Fucking garbage.

Idiot.

[IIIII]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And if Bandy turns out to be another over rated prospect I'm sure you'll come back on here and admit you were wrong.

What would it matter if he is? 5 years of potential is not worth 2 years of Maldonado and a guy that's got rocked at every level of minor league ball. 

 

At worst Bandy ends up like Maldonado by the time he's 30. He's already a better hitter and fielder than Maldonado was at 26. 

[California Cajun]

Caught me by surprise.   Hopefully Eppler has more  up his sleeve. 

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, IIIII said:

What would it matter if he is? 5 years of potential is not worth 2 years of Maldonado and a guy that's got rocked at every level of minor league ball. 

 

At worst Bandy ends up like Maldonado by the time he's 30. He's already a better hitter and fielder than Maldonado was at 26. 

Did you like the Escobar trade?  The Simmons trade?  The Marte trade?  The Santiago trade?  

[Tank]

surprised they gave so quickly on bandy, who seems to have a better career ahead of him than maldonado.

 

i think eppler is trying to bring in a roster completely full of guys i've never heard of, just to spite me.

[IIIII]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Did you like the Escobar trade?  The Simmons trade?  The Marte trade?  The Santiago trade?  

I was Indifferent to the Marte trade, liked the Simmons trade a lot, didn't care for the escobar trade (liked Gott and assumed we could have signed Freese, so at that time Gott+Freese>Escobar imo), and I didn't particularly like the prospect we got for Santiago. Hopefully he lives up to the expectations but Meyer's injury history still scares me. 

[nikkachez]

Eppler has shown us we should have more faith in him, wanna react fast because of the management in prior years. Seems natural. 

 

But really, depending on what the corresponding moves are, this could be a minor improvement, but an improvement nonetheless. Kinda curious to know if they have plans to replace Carlos. I never know with Eppler as GM anymore haha

[ettin]

44 minutes ago, Tank said:

surprised they gave so quickly on bandy, who seems to have a better career ahead of him than maldonado.

 

i think eppler is trying to bring in a roster completely full of guys i've never heard of, just to spite me.

I imagine they didn't really want to trade Bandy but Eppler obviously thought that the two players he got back were more than worth it. I hope he's right and I have a feeling he might be.

[ukyah]

23 minutes ago, ettin said:

I imagine they didn't really want to trade Bandy but Eppler obviously thought that the two players he got back were more than worth it. I hope he's right and I have a feeling he might be.

it's hard to see this trade in that particular light.