Angels in on Turner!?!?!?!?!

[Stradling]

Just now, CALZONE said:

Recon, we had a thread here that asked "how many championships will we win with Pujols?" Some people said 3-4 and some said dynasty. I found it amusing. We were the AL West favorites in 2012 and 2013 so yes we were overconfident. 

You realize that we aren't the organization right?  So our overconfidence has zero value to what Arte or the Angels game plan is going forward.  You have to know that but you still speak as if it has some sort of meaning.  

[Ohtaniland]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude gets us the fans mixed up with the front office when he talks about being overconfident.  They have nothing to do with each other. 

When Arte doesn't fulfill your needs this offseason, stop watching. It will save you a lot of time and money. 

[disarcina]

ten ocho recon scout -- the A's dealing Cespedes in 2014 is a deal I will never understand.  Very un- Billy Beane like.

the only thing I could think of was that Cespedes' name was mentioned in that MLB banned substances report that was circulating/ rumored at the time -- and he was about to get a 50 game suspension or something -- that didn't happen -- and the A's went into biggest tail spin in the second half that pretty much proved that Cespedes was carrying the offense. And they got a rental in Lester --

Some day someone needs to get Beane to open up about what that Cespedes deal was really about....it made no sense then, it makes no sense now. And Cespedes remains a top quality player who can carry a team..........that's one guy that I wouldn't mind the Angels spending some money on -- although if we didn't do before when we had the chance not sure if we're in the hunt now.

[Troll Daddy]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

When Arte doesn't fulfill your needs this offseason, stop watching. It will save you a lot of time and money. 

You're head is screwed up amigo ... super fan gone bad. 

Cheer up

[Ohtaniland]

Just now, Stradling said:

You realize that we aren't the organization right?  So our overconfidence has zero value to what Arte or the Angels game plan is going forward.  You have to know that but you still speak as if it has some sort of meaning.  

Realize that when the Angels won in 2002, you won nothing, they did. When they lose, you don't, they do. They're ok with it so you should be ok with it also. I've never seen Pujols or Trout say "sorry we sucked this season, we'll try harder next season" 

The fans keep filling the seats so 90% of the fans are fine with it.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

You're head is screwed up amigo ... super fan gone bad. 

Cheer up

I'm not complaining about the team. I welcome the change. I hope Arte stays on course and allows Eppler to build the team.

[tdawg87]

14 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Realize that when the Angels won in 2002, you won nothing, they did. When they lose, you don't, they do. They're ok with it so you should be ok with it also. I've never seen Pujols or Trout say "sorry we sucked this season, we'll try harder next season" 

The fans keep filling the seats so 90% of the fans are fine with it.

Are you even a fan

[ELEVEN]

7 hours ago, Blarg said:

The Dodgers are already near the luxury tax threshold with only 8 players on their active roster. They owe over $55 million in dead money contracts for 2017 to 7 players they traded or released.  That team is seriously upside down in terms of payrol.

Guggenheim owns the Dogs. They have enough money to buy every team in MLB plus every team in the NFL, with enough cash left over to buy Donald Trump. 

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

When Arte doesn't fulfill your needs this offseason, stop watching. It will save you a lot of time and money. 

And how bout you take your bitching somewhere else.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Are you even a fan

You know the answer to that question. 

[Ohtaniland]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Are you even a fan

Yes I am. I'm just not a superfan. 

[Stradling]

Just now, CALZONE said:

Yes I am. I'm just not a fan  

 

[Ohtaniland]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And how bout you take your bitching somewhere else.  

I think you need to celebrate  Festivus this offseason. Call the FO and let know that you're not happy with the "under spending"on players. Maybe they'll listen to you. 

Happy Holidays Strad. 

Rejoice, we have Albert Freakin Pujols!

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Yes I am. I'm just not a superfan. 

Not a super fan? You are the leader of the CALZONE sign. You are the definition of super fan 

[ettin]

9 minutes ago, disarcina said:

how many here are for giving Turner a huge ($80 million?) up to four year deal to play in Anaheim?

why am I skeptical of this? why would I prefer we spend that kind of money on pitching -- if an ace worth paying anything close to that is available on the F/A market (looks kinds of light this year).

What's wrong with holding on to that money and saving it for a better F/A market next year?

I don't know, I think Turner had a career year with the Dodgers and he may do well next year, but I see another multi-year contract with diminishing returns in years 3 and 4. Don't we already have enough money locked up on declining performance players?

And why is everyone so ready to deal Escobar?  He did pretty well for us last year with timely, clutch hitting and was, perhaps, the best Halos lead off hitter since Chone Figgins (which may be saying more about the quality of our lead off hitters since then rather than anything about Escobar).  Escobar's glove is weak so we'd need a quality slick fielding back up INF who could play 3B and perhaps some SS (can Utley do that? he's a part-time guy looking for a job, good glove (not so sure about that at 3B), good clubhouse veteran leadership presence, decent clutch bat, makes contact, can steal a base and can sacrifice when asked to do so (amazing, that used to be a given of virtually every MLB player, including pitchers, and now it's a special 'extra' skill -- well Chase Utley is a throw back player).

I say no to playing big bucks for a multi-year deal for Turner. He'll get the money and is hit the market just right -- a career type year heading into a weak F/A market. Some one will over-pay. Hope it's not us. With our track record, it may well be.

Let him sign with Seattle -- then he'll be hitting about .215 by the 2017 All Start break.

 

First of all there are no ace like pitchers on the free agent market for us to buy and second the ones that might be available in trade are out of our reach because we don't have a farm system to trade from.

Turner I think is worth a four year investment but the Angels will only be able to meet his salary demands if either a ) the Luxury Tax threshold goes up or b ) Arte chooses to exceed the Luxury Tax. The former is actually a likely possibility as they have mentioned the Threshold might rise to $200M. If that happens the Angels will go from having approximately $21M-25M in free Average Annual Value to about $35M give or take. That would allow the Angels to give, say, a $20M per year contract to Turner and allow them to trade Escobar which would also shave off upwards of $7M from AAV leaving us at about $22M. Add in a reasonable pitcher say at about $6M AAV and whomever the Angels trade for at 2B (probably another $6M-7M based on their options) and you have about $10M left in reserve.

The reason this may happen is that the Angels are planning to compete this season but they are hedging their bets with acquisitions like Maybin, Chavez, and Bailey whom they can trade away at the deadline if we are out of the race. However Turner can provide a good defensive solution (unlike Escobar) and has good offense to go with it which would actually fill the spot appropriately for four years or so depending on the contract. Same with 2B when we acquire via trade a long term contributor there too.

If the Angels can upgrade defensively at 3B and 2B and actually add offense at the same time and add a veteran back end starter (innings eater type) it will have been a successful offseason in my opinion and we will be very competitive in 2017. More so in 2018 and beyond.

[Ohtaniland]

13 minutes ago, failos said:

Not a super fan? You are the leader of the CALZONE sign. You are the definition of super fan 

I don't consider myself any different than any other fan. It's just a sign. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

44 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Recon, we had a thread here that asked "how many championships will we win with Pujols?" Some people said 3-4 and some said dynasty. I found it amusing. We were the AL West favorites in 2012 and 2013 so yes we were overconfident. 

We the fans may have been, but i doubt the front office or the team was saying that. but i dont see how thats any different than any other fanbase when marqee free agents sign. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We the fans may have been, but i doubt the front office or the team was saying that. but i dont see how thats any different than any other fanbase when marqee free agents sign. 

Exactly.  

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We the fans may have been, but i doubt the front office or the team was saying that. but i dont see how thats any different than any other fanbase when marqee free agents sign. 

When you spend $254M and $85M then another $125M on three players followed with monster press conferences, there's a high level of expectation and confidence that runs across the board from the fans to the front office. 

[Stradling]

Then the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals are all failures because they consistently sign big name free agents, and that somehow causes a false sense of bravado and these teams don't win every single year.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

I don't consider myself any different than any other fan. It's just a sign. 

My point is that there's nothing wrong with being a super fan.

[Ohtaniland]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Then the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals are all failures because they consistently sign big name free agents, and that somehow causes a false sense of bravado and these teams don't win every single year.

I'm fine with Arte not signing anymore overrated "big named" contract year players that are in the sunset of their careers. What's your projection of Justin Turner when he turns 35 in three seasons? 

edit I mean over hyped big name players.

 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

I'm fine with Arte not signing anymore overrated "big named" contract year players that are in the sunset of their careers. What's your projection of Justin Turner when he turns 35 in three seasons? 

edit I mean over hyped big name players.

 

I have no idea, but what he's like in the last year of his contract is not huge on my list of worries when you sign a guy to a four year deal.   As long as he plays well for a majority of his contract and improves the team I'm good with that.  If you worry about a players value in the last year of his free agent contract then you should stay away from every single free agent, beyond one year.  

I will put it this way.  If you Claude had an issue with Albert's performance now because he makes $30 million a year, I would understand that.  But if you are going to do that you should probably give him props for putting up a 5 win season when he was only making $12 million his first year here.  

I have encouraged you to follow amateur sports because it's obvious you hate the money side of the professional game.  For some reason you've decided to be miserable.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

When you spend $254M and $85M then another $125M on three players followed with monster press conferences, there's a high level of expectation and confidence that runs across the board from the fans to the front office. 

Every team, in wvery sport, holds press conferences when big names are signed...its not even because they are bragging, but because rhe media wants to cover it. IE, "press conference".

Youre confusing overconfidence with a team realizing they were close and adding pieces to put them over the top. they were the wrong pieces. and in their defense, aside from wells and gmj, i dont think anyone out there was predicting hamilton to collapse, much less pujols to. and wilson leaving arlington for here was a pretty safe bet. no one had a crystal ball saying his elbow would die and his vag would itch.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, ELEVEN said:

Guggenheim owns the Dogs. They have enough money to buy every team in MLB plus every team in the NFL, with enough cash left over to buy Donald Trump. 

 

you missed the mandate from baseball to lower their debt ratio. it has something to do with an ownership rule withing 5 years of purchase.

that's what the previous poster was alluding to. i have no idea what the intricacies are and what that will mean for on field payroll, but there's a possibility that they'll be forced to fill from within and let their big ticket FA's walk.