The U.S. just murdered sixty civilians in Syria

[wopphil]

1 hour ago, calscuf said:

I don't want to touch this thread.

Please do. Make the thread great.

[mtangelsfan]

Ha ha!

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, calscuf said:

I don't want to touch this thread.

It has aids. 

[Amazing Larry]

Calscuf or the thread?

[mtangelsfan]

Yes?

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

How do condolences matter?

I think the military is very willing to 'risk' killing civilians.  

Would you agree hitting someone with your car because the sun was in your eyes is different than hitting tbem because you were drunk or simply aiming at them?

[arch stanton]

Without getting into details, if the story is correct regarding where the jets took off then it wasn't US planes.

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Would you agree hitting someone with your car because the sun was in your eyes is different than hitting tbem because you were drunk or simply aiming at them?

I would liken this to firing a gun around people and ending up killing a few folks

[Angelsjunky]

I'm finding myself agreeing with almost everything nate and mtangelsfan say in this thread. Who would've thunk it.

nate and mtangelsfan, upon hearing this, take a long hard look in the mirror.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

29 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm finding myself agreeing with almost everything nate and mtangelsfan say in this thread. Who would've thunk it.

nate and mtangelsfan, upon hearing this, take a long hard look in the mirror.

 

Dogs and cats, living together, mass hysteria!

[ten ocho recon scout]

The ME is a no win situation. Be involved, upset with outcome. Stay out, be upset with outcome.

The hope is a bosnia style situation...the probablity (which is a guarantee if we stay out fully) is another afghanistan. (Which some tend to ignore what grew out of there post soviets). The middle ground is another iran (which at this point is better than the current) or a yemen (which is on its way towards iraq/syria).

I wonder how much could be accomplished if a dialog was worked out between iran and the saudis...

[Angelsjunky]

The thing is, ocho, we've never tried staying out - we've always been involved. We've never tried just pulling out and seeing if they can figure shit out themselves.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't be involved at all, but what if our involvement was only with humanitarian aid? It would probably take a generation or two, but maybe eventually people of the Middle East wouldn't associate the US with bombing hospitals but with building them.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Well, put it like this. We ignored afghanistan when it fell to the taliban (which was isis before isis was cool). Weve ignored yemen, really had no hand in syria (regardless of what people think, our influence in places like that is next to nothing), most of noth africa, etc. All of those places are the badlands.

Regardless of what we do or dont do, we are the boogeyman to everyone over there. Not at all saying our hands are clean, they arent. Iraq alone was pandoras box. But even pre iraq, pre 9/11 etc, the US has been the scapegoat in the region for all problems. Us and israel. Prior to the iraq civil war breakout, every muslim V muslim attack that shocked the public was "the cia or mossad". This is the result of having a population thats pretty much seperated from the rest of the world, whos only forums for world issues and news are the mosques....

Both the saudis and iranians have been sponsoring anti america/israeli propoganda for years...because it keeps the public from blaming their own govts for internal issues.

 

[Glen]

Fucked if we do, fucked if we don't. 

[Lou]

15 hours ago, arch stanton said:

Without getting into details, if the story is correct regarding where the jets took off then it wasn't US planes.

Funny how this comment was ignored 

[Angelsjunky]

ocho, I hear you, but the reason we're the boogeyman over there is because of what we do, and have done. Decades and decades of intervention. We're like a bull in a china shop - no matter which way we move, we knock something over and break it. The only thing we've never done is get the fuck out of the china shop.

I think the bottom line, though, is that the Middle East is a mess and no one knows how to "fix" it. But the only thing we haven't tried is getting out and only offering "soft" support.

[Blarg]

Jonathan is looking for the solution to the question the middle east never asks. 

They want weapons and power. That is what the currency is, not education,  hospitals or infrastructure. 

[Angelsjunky]

OK, then let's stop providing them with weapons and power. And let's stop giving them reasons to lash out with weapons. I think the view of the US government has largely been that it is like a virus - we have to burn it out. But the problem is, it just keeps adapting and moving. You squash it in one place and it re-emerges in another, but worse.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Glen said:

Fucked if we do, fucked if we don't. 

the very definition of a catch-22.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

OK, then let's stop providing them with weapons and power. And let's stop giving them reasons to lash out with weapons. I think the view of the US government has largely been that it is like a virus - we have to burn it out. But the problem is, it just keeps adapting and moving. You squash it in one place and it re-emerges in another, but worse.

You seem to think we are the only weapons suppliers in the world. 

[Angelsjunky]

Not at all. But we've certainly been the nation most involved with sticking our fingers into the hornet's nest, perhaps because of oil interests but also the Israel infatuation (that is, because there's a lot of wealthy Jewish people in the US who financially support politicians and expect them to defend every little thing Israel does).

[NrM]

On 7/20/2016 at 10:47 AM, gotbeer said:

Don't worry.  The US will condemn Russia for doing the same thing in a few months.

Don't worry. Obama will condemn Israel for everything.

[wopphil]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

 (that is, because there's a lot of wealthy Jewish people in the US who financially support politicians and expect them to defend every little thing Israel does).

Damn dude, talk about anti-semitism. Maybe we are "infatuated" with Israel because they are a prosperous, democratic nation which shares our ideals? Because they are an exceptional ally and a bad-ass nation that can hold their own in the most dysfunctional part of the world?

[InsideThePark]

Meh, I don't think that was anti-semitism. Extremely mild compared to what is said about other groups.

Israel does some great things but money and religion has almost everything to do with why we always defend them.

[Jay]

I didn't read the whole thread but...

It's war. War is messy.

If/when there is a war here in the U.S. plenty of innocent civilians will die.