Any updates on Arte's stadium quest?

[Jobu]

56 minutes ago, Blarg said:

AO quit being an asshole. The payroll is maxed out so there is no five and dime going on. If Arte was going the A's route you would have a point but the amount invested in this team puts them in the top five payroll for the last decade. 

You enjoyed the ride when they bought a team,  shut up and live with the bubble burst. 

Major league payroll is not the only barometer of investment or success. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

7 hours ago, gotbeer said:

Vegas Angels or Vegas A's.  One will end up there, since someone else will pay and build it.

Bring it on.

[ELEVEN]

11 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Can someone google translate?

Now is time to Chase bank?

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, Blarg said:

AO quit being an asshole. The payroll is maxed out so there is no five and dime going on. If Arte was going the A's route you would have a point but the amount invested in this team puts them in the top five payroll for the last decade. 

You enjoyed the ride when they bought a team,  shut up and live with the bubble burst. 

You make a good point, looking at current payroll.    But I can't help myself (sorry for gratuitous Four Tops plug), for seeing a possible total checking out on payroll by Moreno even after $62 million AAV comes off by November 2017.   If I am wrong, I will own up to it.

A temp bubble burst, I can live with; just not a long term one.  

[Blarg]

19 hours ago, Kevinb said:

You're a fucking billionaire Arte pay for your own fucking stadium. Literally these stadium deals are absolute dog shit for the city and the residents. Oh good you have a team in my local market yippee. You don't have to pay for anything. Free stadium such a load of shit 

Would you like to name all of the stadiums in the last 30 years in MLB that were bought and paid for by the owner?

[Blarg]

18 hours ago, Jobu said:

Major league payroll is not the only barometer of investment or success. 

Obviously not but claiming the owner is a cheapskate when the payroll now has crested the luxury tax and has been on that ceiling for 10 years is an indicator that your underwear is too damn tight.

[Blarg]

53 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

You make a good point, looking at current payroll.    But I can't help myself (sorry for gratuitous Four Tops plug), for seeing a possible total checking out on payroll by Moreno even after $62 million AAV comes off by November 2017.   If I am wrong, I will own up to it.

A temp bubble burst, I can live with; just not a long term one.  

I would be very comfortable with the organization not spending that $62 million in the next off season and stockpile a reserve of cash and prospects to build the team correctly. I believe that is what Eppler was hired to do rather than just go to the Moreno ATM for more cash.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I would be very comfortable with the organization not spending that $62 million in the next off season and stockpile a reserve of cash and prospects to build the team correctly. I believe that is what Eppler was hired to do rather than just go to the Moreno ATM for more cash.

I would sign off on a compromise.   Take say $40-45 million towards stockpiling the cash and prospects reserve, and invest in a couple of rock solid MLB relievers after 2017.    The bullpen is in worse shape than for just about any MLB team currently.   Bullpens are very important, and Dipeutered's fungible tag on them totally messed things up.     

After having overnight to think about it, I will give Moreno one more chance for the next 2 years.   If indeed he does at least do what I mentioned above, and the farm and the bullpen both improve significantly, there may be hope yet.  

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Would you like to name all of the stadiums in the last 30 years in MLB that were bought and paid for by the owner?

Other municipalities (Miami/Dade, Cobb County, City of Arlington, et al) bend over and supply their own KY jelly.  The City of Anaheim doesn't, and Arte did himself no favors with the LAA of A slight from 10 years ago.  So now what's the business genius (he did used to be called that on this board, you know) going to do?

[mrwicked]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Would you like to name all of the stadiums in the last 30 years in MLB that were bought and paid for by the owner?

Giants did it.

Warriors are doing it.

All privately funded, on private land, no public subsidy.

[yk9001]

33 minutes ago, mrwicked said:

Giants did it.

All privately funded, on private land, no public subsidy.

Yeah, about that... that's not how some people who've looked at it see it.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4591

To see why, let's take a closer look at the Giants' Pac Bell Park (now SBC Park, and soon to be AT&T Park if the latest merger-related rumors are true). The widely reported $15 million in public funds--used to relocate a public transit facility that was in the way of the ballpark--was just the tip of the iceberg, it turns out. Long estimates $33 million in value for the land itself, donated by the local government for the cause at no cost to the Giants; $25 million worth of municipal fire, police, and garbage services; and $83 million in forgone property taxes, because despite being privatedly owned, the stadium nonetheless receives a full property tax exemption.

They are also haggling for tax breaks, saying the value of the land has fallen by 50%.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Giants-ask-SF-for-tax-break-on-AT-T-Park-say-7950787.php?t=336b6fad4b3aa214ae&cmpid=twitter-premium

 

[sneaky_flute]

On 6/22/2016 at 2:12 PM, gotbeer said:

Coincidentally.  This is what is happening in Arlington.

Rangers' new stadium will cost taxpayers additional $300 million

The title alone is patently false. The parking surcharge (which typically goes to the city in these cases) is instead going to the owners, mitigating some of the city's financial burden caused by things like bonds. It's merely an alternative to bank financing and not the nefarious scheme sites like Deadspin are making it out to be. 

[mrwicked]

32 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Yeah, about that... that's not how some people who've looked at it see it.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4591

To see why, let's take a closer look at the Giants' Pac Bell Park (now SBC Park, and soon to be AT&T Park if the latest merger-related rumors are true). The widely reported $15 million in public funds--used to relocate a public transit facility that was in the way of the ballpark--was just the tip of the iceberg, it turns out. Long estimates $33 million in value for the land itself, donated by the local government for the cause at no cost to the Giants; $25 million worth of municipal fire, police, and garbage services; and $83 million in forgone property taxes, because despite being privatedly owned, the stadium nonetheless receives a full property tax exemption.

They are also haggling for tax breaks, saying the value of the land has fallen by 50%.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Giants-ask-SF-for-tax-break-on-AT-T-Park-say-7950787.php?t=336b6fad4b3aa214ae&cmpid=twitter-premium

 

ah well, close enough. still better than the city funding the bill. 

the niners are asking for tax relief lately too. who can blame them? f*ck taxes.

[kevinb]

5 hours ago, Blarg said:

Would you like to name all of the stadiums in the last 30 years in MLB that were bought and paid for by the owner?

Duh Blarg that's my fucking point. I'm tired of these owners getting free fucking stadiums because oh it's their home sport team I could care less if the Angels stayed in Orange County or not. Leave Arte take them where ever you want but when will these cities realize they will never make the money they forked over back. Arte and the rest of the sports owners are holding cities and there sports fans captive it's absolutely stupid. I am a huge capitalist but this is stupid. We are as a government in debt up to our ears but no let's spend how much yearly on these idiotic stadiums. I'd rather watch the game at a bar or at my house with hgtv and better food and beer 

[John Stellman]

Arte is too busy counting his money.

[Stradling]

On June 22, 2016 at 8:20 AM, CALZONE said:

He currently keeps all of the parking revenue to a certain threshold which is about 95%. He keeps 100% of all concessions and ticket sales. 

If this is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then Arte absolutely cares about the "REAL" attendance figures.  So our narrative that he only cares about 3 million fans (which I agreed with) is dead wrong.  If he keeps or the team keeps all the money, then he is losing a ton of money compared to what he'd make with actual people in the seats.  I read some index that the average fan spends $50 for a ticket, and concessions.  I've also read the average ticket is about $18 at Angel stadium.  If those figures are somewhat accurate and we would assume the real attendance is what, about 2/3's of tickets sold, then he's possibly losing $30 million in revenue.  Obviously those numbers are somewhat speculative, but based on real stats I've read.  That's also assuming 2/3's of tickets sold show up, when most people on here will say it's less than that.  

[yk9001]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If this is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then Arte absolutely cares about the "REAL" attendance figures.  So our narrative that he only cares about 3 million fans (which I agreed with) is dead wrong.  If he keeps or the team keeps all the money, then he is losing a ton of money compared to what he'd make with actual people in the seats.  I read some index that the average fan spends $50 for a ticket, and concessions.  I've also read the average ticket is about $18 at Angel stadium.  If those figures are somewhat accurate and we would assume the real attendance is what, about 2/3's of tickets sold, then he's possibly losing $30 million in revenue.  Obviously those numbers are somewhat speculative, but based on real stats I've read.  That's also assuming 2/3's of tickets sold show up, when most people on here will say it's less than that.  

I've certainly thought that actual butts in the seats counts.  There are a small percentage of fans who bring in their del taco/peanuts.  Most buy a ticket, then hit the concessions.  And then hit the concessions again.  It is real money being lost when butts aren't in the seats.

[Ohtaniland]

39 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

I've certainly thought that actual butts in the seats counts.  There are a small percentage of fans who bring in their del taco/peanuts.  Most buy a ticket, then hit the concessions.  And then hit the concessions again.  It is real money being lost when butts aren't in the seats.

Arte has a huge season ticket holder fan base. When the turnstile numbers are low Arte shuts down many of the food concessions and sends people home to lower expenses. He pays zero rent so he has one of the sweetest deals in professional sports. He's been playing with house money for years. Arte has always relied on the post 2002 season newbie fans by signing the latest big named star players to keep the seats warm. Vlad was probably his best signing which kept us afloat for a number of years. Torii was a good signing but GMJ, the Wells trade, Hamilton and Pujols were terrible. Arte now relies on the biggest commodity in baseball Mike Trout to fill the seats. He's making tons of $$$ off of Trout. The Trout jerseys are a hot seller worldwide and Arte makes money on every legally sold Mike Trout jersey. The hotdog concession stands are no big deal to Arte because he makes so much money off the bandwagoners attending games just to get the latest Trout or Pujols nuttswinger giveaways.

Get your tickets now....

[Stradling]

How many season ticket holders does he have?  Something like 17,000 or so?  Is that a lot compared to the league?  

[Inside Pitch]

19 hours ago, sneaky_flute said:

The title alone is patently false. The parking surcharge (which typically goes to the city in these cases) is instead going to the owners, mitigating some of the city's financial burden caused by things like bonds. It's merely an alternative to bank financing and not the nefarious scheme sites like Deadspin are making it out to be. 

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/category/mlb/texas-rangers/

[Inside Pitch]

56 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Arte has a huge season ticket holder fan base. When the turnstile numbers are low Arte shuts down many of the food concessions and sends people home to lower expenses.

So Arte calls the shots for Legends Hospitality now?   

[Stradling]

My only point in bringing up the turnstiles versus tickets sold is the loss of possible revenue.  Sure he gets $19-20 a seat sold, but he loses all of the money that people spend at the ballpark.  If the indexes I saw are accurate it is a huge amount of money that is lost.  Which you would think I is why the Angels have that offer I posted (possibly in this thread) about all 17 games in July and August for $49 a seat.  

[Ohtaniland]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So Arte calls the shots for Legends Hospitality now?   

They pay Arte rent regardless of the attendance.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

They pay Arte rent regardless of the attendance.

You claimed Moreno closes the concessions and sends people home....    Does paying him rent also mean he gets to tell them to shut it down and send people home?  I'm interested in the facts, not agenda driven hyperbole.   

So, answer the question -- Does Arte Moreno call the shorts for Legends..   It's a yes or no question.

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

If this is true and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then Arte absolutely cares about the "REAL" attendance figures.  So our narrative that he only cares about 3 million fans (which I agreed with) is dead wrong.  If he keeps or the team keeps all the money, then he is losing a ton of money compared to what he'd make with actual people in the seats.  I read some index that the average fan spends $50 for a ticket, and concessions.  I've also read the average ticket is about $18 at Angel stadium.  If those figures are somewhat accurate and we would assume the real attendance is what, about 2/3's of tickets sold, then he's possibly losing $30 million in revenue.  Obviously those numbers are somewhat speculative, but based on real stats I've read.  That's also assuming 2/3's of tickets sold show up, when most people on here will say it's less than that.  

The thing is though.  Concessions make up a very small % of revenues.  Just because they are charging $20 for a hotdog, doesn't mean the Angels are getting $20 for a hotdog.  Looking way back at the 2009 leaked financials, of the $240 million in revenues listed.  $100-103 million came from tickets (42%), local broadcast (I don't know if this is pre or post new contract) $42 million (%17.5), MLB fund $38 million (15.8%), local advertising $16-19 million (7.3%) then finally food and beverage $16 million (6.7%). 

So even if food and beverage goes down half due to attendance really being half.  It's still a 3% loss.  They are probably still saying tickets sold to keep the advertising up.  And if they are still selling the tickets, and people aren't showing up, it's still a sold ticket.