Pujols last 30 games

[Lou]

Ha!

"Mitchell signed a minor league deal with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim on May 16, 2015. After signing with the Angels, Mitchell played for the Arkansas Travelers of the Class AA Texas League and Salt Lake Bees of the Class AAA Pacific Coast League during the 2015 season. On November 7, 2015, Mitchell elected free agency"

Never heard of the guy. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

17 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

My theory is that Arte's motivation in acquiring Albert or Josh wasn't purely about winning if at all.  Actually, bringing in Albert was a pretty decent idea at the time.  Hard to imagine he'd decline at a much different rate than any other player who had put up similar numbers to that point in their careers.  They got a ton of pub from it and he's been decently productive to this point so it's probably been a solid financial move.  In other words, Arte has gotten out of it what he's wanted.  Winning would have been a bonus.  

Hamilton was the straw that broke the camel's back.  It took away all of our short term flexibility and still left holes that could have easily been filled by the money he's being paid.  It really is the difference or at least it was going into the season.  

But really it was all about star power and now that he has the best player in baseball, why spend any more money?  

Spending to improve the team was secondary to spending as a means to bring the fans.  

You may be right. I saw it as 2004 all over again, when he signed Guerrero, Colon and Guillen. 2004 through 2009 were the golden age of this franchise, with Guerrero as the corner stone. I think Arte thought he could do that again, but what Arte did not understand was that he inherited the best farm system in baseball and it was that depth that won us all those divisions. Perhaps he had a belief that farm systems just grow on trees and that he could neglect it and not have to worry about the consequences.

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ha!

"Mitchell signed a minor league deal with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim on May 16, 2015. After signing with the Angels, Mitchell played for the Arkansas Travelers of the Class AA Texas League and Salt Lake Bees of the Class AAA Pacific Coast League during the 2015 season. On November 7, 2015, Mitchell elected free agency"

Never heard of the guy. 

Wasn't Grant Green selected ahead of Mike Trout as well (or maybe just after). I see Green as the perfect example of why a players make up is vital to their success. Scouting reports on him thought he had the physical talents to be a top flight defensive shortstop in the majors, yet we couldn't find a position on the field he could play well enough to get in the lineup.

[Lou]

Yes, he was. 

[Lou]

8 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You may be right. I saw it as 2004 all over again, when he signed Guerrero, Colon and Guillen. 2004 through 2009 were the golden age of this franchise, with Guerrero as the corner stone. I think Arte thought he could do that again, but what Arte did not understand was that he inherited the best farm system in baseball and it was that depth that won us all those divisions. Perhaps he had a belief that farm systems just grow on trees and that he could neglect it and not have to worry about the consequences.

In all fairness, Arte doesn't do the drafting. If those responsible are supplying the system garbage, you're almost forced to try for the quick fix.

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

When I say this team, I'm talking about the Pujols / Trout Angels, not the Guerrero / Anderson Angels, or the Ryan / Tanana Angels or the Fregosi / Whoeverthefuck Angels.

The whoeverthfuck angels should be the logo on top of rhe dugout, with 2016 under it 

[eaterfan]

18 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Come on, there are no excuses. Aside from Pujols and Hamilton how many effective players have we spent money on to add to this team? Maybe Street and Smith? Smith is making pennies compared to most free agents, and Street is a fairly cheap closer who we gave up essentially no one of value for.

Our next biggest purchase was... Joe Blanton? Am I forgetting anyone significant?

For all this talk of a window it sure seems like the Angels were content to add two big names and ignore the rest of the team. While people put everything on Pujols underachieving, as has been pointed out repeatedly, he has provided the value per dollar you'd expect to get on the free agent market up to this point. So where was that short term talent that would've pushed us over the top? Where was the money for international talent? Where was the money for players in the amateur draft? What has Arte done with all the money he made in the TV deal? 

As time goes on it starts to look like Arte had greater expectations for Pujols and Hamilton than even us fans did. Albert and Josh were supposed to make up for the lack of arms in the rotation, arms in the pen, or talent coming up from the minors, and they were supposed to do it for the next half decade. This was the plan. For all the talk of how things have gone terribly wrong, we had Mike fuckin Trout fall in our lap, and yet here we are. To put ANY of the blame on Albert Pujols is to completely miss the forest for the trees.

It's not just the moves you make it's the ones you don't. Maybe we hang on to Grirchuck instead of chasing a short term 3rd baseman in Freese. Maybe we move Aybar or Kendrick a year earlier for more/better prospects. Maybe we move Ianetta a little earlier too. Any bullpen reliever we had who was having a good season could have been moved for prospects (not that we had many of them). But for the last 4 years we've basically been waiting for Pujols to bounce back to near MVP levels so we always had a chance the next year (largely due to Trout). If we would have focused on building around Trout instead of around Pujols then I think this organization is in a much better spot from top to bottom right now.

[Stradling]

so why aren't we trying to build around Trout?  Oh that's right because we can't draft or develop or sign international players.  None of which has anything to do with Albert.  

If they prioritized drafting and developing then losing one first round pick or even the second one would have stung but wouldn't have crippled the team.  Boston seems to be fine when they sign free agents.  

[Angel Oracle]

Until Arte Moreno bites the bullet and goes back into Latin America as fervently as any baseball owner, and not mostly ignore it, the farm will still be substandard.

You CANNOT ignore almost totally an important part of development, and succeed.

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

 Boston seems to be fine when they sign free agents.  

Their old Dominican guy signed to a long term contract still rakes.  Ours sucks.

[Stradling]

46 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Their old Dominican guy signed to a long term contract still rakes.  Ours sucks.

It's crazy that in yk's world David Ortiz having a good year helps Boston be good at drafting and developing.  

[eaterfan]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

so why aren't we trying to build around Trout?  Oh that's right because we can't draft or develop or sign international players.  None of which has anything to do with Albert.  

If they prioritized drafting and developing then losing one first round pick or even the second one would have stung but wouldn't have crippled the team.  Boston seems to be fine when they sign free agents.  

It does have to do with Albert. Giving up high draft picks over and over has an effect. Trading prospects has an effect. Holding onto veterans a little too long and not trading them for prospects has an effect on the overall talent in the organization. 

The contract was always thing to be horrible on the back end and that made it urgent that the team win during the front half of Pujols' contact. The team made decisions to accomplish this instead of trying to win during the second half of his contract. Had they not signed Pujols you'd have to assume that changes their projected competitive window and this the organizational decision making.

[Stradling]

Ok, if the team had a great Albert Pujols the farm would still suck.  They lost one pick because of Albert and one because of Josh.  So how bout the first round pick before Albert or after Josh?  How bout drafting a quality player after the first round, other teams do it, hell we have done it with Calhoun, but we basically suck at drafting and developing.  If we were good at it then a bad contract like Albert's is just that a bad contract.   Look at the everyday players we have drafted the last decade, there are about 4 of them. 

[Angel Oracle]

And that harkens back to Arte Moreno.   If he would only care about having a solid farm to build from, through then being able to do some trading of prospects to strengthen weak areas (not gutting the farm).

This isn't the billboard world Arte, where big splash is all you are trying to do.

[Docwaukee]

32 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, if the team had a great Albert Pujols the farm would still suck.  They lost one pick because of Albert and one because of Josh.  So how bout the first round pick before Albert or after Josh?  How bout drafting a quality player after the first round, other teams do it, hell we have done it with Calhoun, but we basically suck at drafting and developing.  If we were good at it then a bad contract like Albert's is just that a bad contract.   Look at the everyday players we have drafted the last decade, there are about 4 of them. 

in all fairness, we've turned some of those into Simmons, Perez, Trop, Santiago, Escobar, and Street in addition to Calhoun, Trout, Cron and Weaver.  But I see what you are saying.  

[eaterfan]

26 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, if the team had a great Albert Pujols the farm would still suck.  They lost one pick because of Albert and one because of Josh.  So how bout the first round pick before Albert or after Josh?  How bout drafting a quality player after the first round, other teams do it, hell we have done it with Calhoun, but we basically suck at drafting and developing.  If we were good at it then a bad contract like Albert's is just that a bad contract.   Look at the everyday players we have drafted the last decade, there are about 4 of them. 

We probably lost only 2 first round picks. But we also lost Grichuk, we lost value on both Kendrick, Ianetta and Aybar by holding onto them for too long. Also maybe our draft strategy is different. Maybe we don't draft low ceiling college players who could contribute early in Pujols' contract and draft higher ceiling guys who are ready later. Maybe when we trade Trumbo or Conger we trade for higher ceiling prospects or more prospects but are farther from the majors. None of those things on their own bring this from a dead organization to a healthy one, but it certainly improves the situation going forward. Not to mention the over $300 million saved.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

We probably lost only 2 first round picks. But we also lost Grichuk, we lost value on both Kendrick, Ianetta and Aybar by holding onto them for too long. Also maybe our draft strategy is different. Maybe we don't draft low ceiling college players who could contribute early in Pujols' contract and draft higher ceiling guys who are ready later. Maybe when we trade Trumbo or Conger we trade for higher ceiling prospects or more prospects but are farther from the majors. None of those things on their own bring this from a dead organization to a healthy one, but it certainly improves the situation going forward. Not to mention the over $300 million saved.

I get what you're saying however I highly doubt we get more for Howie, Trumbo and Conger.  For those three we got four starting pitchers with big upside all under the age of 25.  

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

We probably lost only 2 first round picks. But we also lost Grichuk, we lost value on both Kendrick, Ianetta and Aybar by holding onto them for too long. Also maybe our draft strategy is different. Maybe we don't draft low ceiling college players who could contribute early in Pujols' contract and draft higher ceiling guys who are ready later. Maybe when we trade Trumbo or Conger we trade for higher ceiling prospects or more prospects but are farther from the majors. None of those things on their own bring this from a dead organization to a healthy one, but it certainly improves the situation going forward. Not to mention the over $300 million saved.

I get what you're saying however I highly doubt we get more for Howie, Trumbo and Conger.  For those three we got four starting pitchers with big upside all under the age of 25.  

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

We probably lost only 2 first round picks. But we also lost Grichuk, we lost value on both Kendrick, Ianetta and Aybar by holding onto them for too long. Also maybe our draft strategy is different. Maybe we don't draft low ceiling college players who could contribute early in Pujols' contract and draft higher ceiling guys who are ready later. Maybe when we trade Trumbo or Conger we trade for higher ceiling prospects or more prospects but are farther from the majors. None of those things on their own bring this from a dead organization to a healthy one, but it certainly improves the situation going forward. Not to mention the over $300 million saved.

Never gonna happen Eater.  We were always going to supplement the major league club with whatever resources we had regardless of Pujols.  If we didn't spend the money on him, it would have been on someone else because there was money to spend on the big club.  The 'high floor' draft strategy was a Dipoto/Servais concoction to infuse more upper level talent to help the major league club sooner than later.  It had nothing to do with Albert.  

Albert's presence is by product of the philosophy.  Not the other way around.  And again, Albert has produced relative to what we've paid him so far.  If they were smart, they would have acknowledged that they would need help from the farm during years 6-10 of Albert's contract when he really isn't helping the team anymore.  As such, the draft should have been high ceiling guys ready to contribute in 2017 and beyond.  Something that could have been accomplished with a better strategy in 2012/13/14.  

They also didn't take advantage of ample opportunity to supplement the farm with international players during that time.  Now that window is essentially closed.  

Our last three GM's have one very important thing in common even though they have executed it differently.  They all have a primary directive from on high.  Use your resources on the major league club to keep attendance where it needs to be.  

The acquisitions of Simmons and Escobar should tell you everything you need to know about where this team is philosophically.  Nothing has changed in that regard.  They are just hoping to get better execution of the plan.  When weaver/wilson/hamilton money comes off the books, we will spend it.  Which is great in my estimation.  I just hope we do it with the mind of making the team better and not just more marketable.  

[Angel Oracle]

I'm tired of marketability.   Bring in players who are a combination of grinders and talented performers who aren't head cases like Hackilton, and aren't declining stars.

[ten ocho recon scout]

11 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Their old Dominican guy signed to a long term contract still rakes.  Ours sucks.

They have plenty of other equally bad contracts. 

[Lou]

14 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'm tired of marketability.   Bring in players who are a combination of grinders and talented performers who aren't head cases like Hackilton, and aren't declining stars.

well, , that's easy to say when you aren't signing the checks 

[Angel Oracle]

The BA hasn't fallen much recently, but the power sure has fallen recently.

A paltry two doubles and one HR so far in June

[Docwaukee]

36 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Over/under on amount of games through the season that it takes Pujols to get above replacement level?

He's currently at 0.2 WAR.

which means he's above replacement.  

[thebloob]

Any real question as whether Scioscia has any power when it comes to Pujols?  If the guy can't put weight on his ankle, the manager should shelf him, grow a set Mike....

 

Angels manager Mike Scioscia said giving Pujols some time off to get healthier has "definitely been discussed," but it has yet to occur. There have been times when a date has been mapped out, then Pujols will go through pregame work and declare himself fit to play.

Going on the disabled list, and benefitting from a couple of weeks off, is basically out of the question.

"Not if I don't need to," Pujols said. "You really have to need it. I mean, anybody here can benefit from a two-week break. But if you don't need it, why would you take a two-week break? I don't think that's fair to the team."

So Pujols marches on.

The right foot, the one that was surgically repaired in November, "feels great," he said. But sometimes the left ankle will ache so bad that he can't even put weight on it, and now the left hamstring is an issue. He plans to play through it, all while trying desperately to produce more power from the Angels' cleanup spot.