How Venezuela’s socialist dream collapsed into a nightmare

[floplag]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Jesus it’s always like this with you dude.  You just make shit up.  There’s no Cuban take over of Venezuela.  Most of the Cubans there are doctors, nurses, and teachers.  If you can’t connect the dots between refugee exodus and massive social and political destabilization then I don’t know what to tell you.  Why don’t you tell me ? Is it the Trump administrations deep love of the Venezuelan people that is causing them to orchestrate all of this bullshit ?

That psychopath in Brazil offered asylum to 25 Venezuelan soldiers the other day.  So that gives you a bit of a clue as to what kind of support Guaido is getting from the Venezuelan military.  Think about that, we’re on the side of Bolsanaro.  

And what the fuc* is the point of brining Obama into this discussion? Is it because you presume I think everything about his administration is wonderful ? I actually think that the sanctions that Obama placed on Venezuela were dumb.  But I’m not going down that straw man road with you.  Obama didn’t uplift some nobody as a puppet instrument of subversion.  Obama didn’t in broad day light try and orchestrate a coup.  

Your’re right that this stuff has been the game of the United States for a long time.  Both Democrat and Republican.  It’s time for that shit to end.  It’s not good for United States and it’s not good for global stability.  Enough of the imperialist shit. 

no you pretend shit doesnt exist. or change it to suit you.  I never said anything about a cuban takeover, what i said was that he was using cuban soldiers, huge difference. 
I brought Obama up to point out your comment about "this administration" being irrelevant, it was before he was there.
And im sorry but i dont buy into the whole "Imperialist" nonsense.  We have a global responsibility, and when nations ask us for aid they need to be prepared to make concessions for that aid.  I do wish would would tell the world to piss off as it certainly hasnt garnered us any love for being the UN attack dog, but who else will?  If we go back to isolationist platforms someone is going to step into those places, and the only global powers prepared to do so are not exactly on our side.   so ultimately what would you have us do?

[Tank]

46 minutes ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/46666/democrat-rep-abortion-some-kids-are-unwanted-kill-ryan-saavedra

Poor choice of words . . .

That was disturbing.

[UndertheHalo]

22 hours ago, floplag said:

no you pretend shit doesnt exist. or change it to suit you.  I never said anything about a cuban takeover, what i said was that he was using cuban soldiers, huge difference. 
I brought Obama up to point out your comment about "this administration" being irrelevant, it was before he was there.
And im sorry but i dont buy into the whole "Imperialist" nonsense.  We have a global responsibility, and when nations ask us for aid they need to be prepared to make concessions for that aid.  I do wish would would tell the world to piss off as it certainly hasnt garnered us any love for being the UN attack dog, but who else will?  If we go back to isolationist platforms someone is going to step into those places, and the only global powers prepared to do so are not exactly on our side.   so ultimately what would you have us do?

I’m not pretending about anything Flop. You’re saying things that aren’t true.  And I am telling you they aren’t true.  Literally in the post above this one you said that the Cubans were “holding the country” for Maduro.  I’m not sure how else to interpret that.  The United States doesn’t need to be “isolationist” to stay fu*ck out of other countries internal affairs. Venezuela didn’t ask for our aid.  At least no one who had any right to ask for the United States to intervene in that country.  This isn’t about some noble fight against dictators.  The US is great friends with plenty of dictators.  In Latin America the US was a great ally of Manuel Noriega, until he wasn’t useful anymore.  The same for Saddam Hussein who with the support of the United States fought a devastating war with Iran.  This goes on and on.  Why aren’t we imposing crippling sanctions on the Saudis ? They’re pretty solid abusers of human rights.  This nonsense about “helping” is pure bullshit.  It’s utterly contradictory if you examine the idea at all.  

My position is simply this.  The United States should not be working to sow chaos in Venezuela and the United States should not be in the business of hand picking pretenders as leaders of that country.  Nicolas Maduro should go.  But the this Guaido guy shouldn’t be the one to take over.  His legitimacy is utterly compromised.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

I can't believe Cuba even HAS 20,000 doctors let along that many to send to Venezuela 

[floplag]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not pretending about anything Flop. You’re saying things that aren’t true.  And I am telling you they aren’t true.  Literally in the post above this one you said that the Cubans were “holding the country” for Maduro.  I’m not sure how else to interpret that.  The United States doesn’t need to be “isolationist” to stay fu*ck out of other countries internal affairs. Venezuela didn’t ask for our aid.  At least no one who had any right to ask for the United States to intervene in that country.  This isn’t about some noble fight against dictators.  The US is great friends with plenty of dictators.  In Latin America the US was a great ally of Manuel Noriega, until he wasn’t useful anymore.  The same for Saddam Hussein who with the support of the United States fought a devastating war with Iran.  This goes on and on.  Why aren’t we imposing crippling sanctions on the Saudis ? They’re pretty solid abusers of human rights.  This nonsense about “helping” is pure bullshit.  It’s utterly contradictory if you examine the idea at all.  

My position is simply this.  The United States should not be working to sow chaos in Venezuela and the United States should not be in the business of hand picking pretenders as leaders of that country.  Nicolas Maduro should go.  But the this Guaido guy shouldn’t be the one to take over.  His legitimacy is utterly compromised.  

Only they ARE true.  I didnt make up that Cuban soldiers were there, jeez man look it up im not pulling shit out of my arse here.  Per the Wash Post its as many as 20-25,000 according to the state dept.  Is that actually true, i dont know i didnt take a headcount, but it certainly seems logical/possible considering where their past support has come from.  Ive watched the videos of civilians getting run over, ive seen others showing soldiers on both sides of the fight.  You are literally telling me my own eyes are lying to me and your view is right, would anyone buy that? 

I have no illusions about our foreign relations, weve supported more than our share of dictators over the years and done probably more shitty stuff than those weve fought against.   And were not sowing chaos in this case its already there without our help.  We have literally nothing to do with whats going on there right now, nothing.  And while this Guaido guys legitimacy or whatever may be in question, he is the recognized government in exile by the state department and more than 50 other countries including most of Latin America.  Again, dont believe me, look it up.   Whether or not you think it should be him is completely irrelevant, his people did. 

Im not suggesting we go in guns blazing or whatever but this man is holding the nation illegally using what appears to be foreign soldiers.  To date everyone has played it cool and noone is doing anything stupid, but you gotta think its coming the more he uses his weaponry to literally kill innocents in the streets.   He lost the election, refused to leave... historically speaking how do you think this is going to end? 
 

[Lhalo]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

Only they ARE true.  I didnt make up that Cuban soldiers were there, jeez man look it up im not pulling shit out of my arse here.  Per the Wash Post its as many as 20-25,000 according to the state dept.  Is that actually true, i dont know i didnt take a headcount, but it certainly seems logical/possible considering where their past support has come from.  Ive watched the videos of civilians getting run over, ive seen others showing soldiers on both sides of the fight.  You are literally telling me my own eyes are lying to me and your view is right, would anyone buy that? 

I have no illusions about our foreign relations, weve supported more than our share of dictators over the years and done probably more shitty stuff than those weve fought against.   And were not sowing chaos in this case its already there without our help.  We have literally nothing to do with whats going on there right now, nothing.  And while this Guaido guys legitimacy or whatever may be in question, he is the recognized government in exile by the state department and more than 50 other countries including most of Latin America.  Again, dont believe me, look it up.   Whether or not you think it should be him is completely irrelevant, his people did. 

Im not suggesting we go in guns blazing or whatever but this man is holding the nation illegally using what appears to be foreign soldiers.  To date everyone has played it cool and noone is doing anything stupid, but you gotta think its coming the more he uses his weaponry to literally kill innocents in the streets.   He lost the election, refused to leave... historically speaking how do you think this is going to end? 
 

You can't be serious. If you don't think we have CIA spooks down there rebel rousing and stirring the pot then I have a bridge to sell you. There's only one reason this country's half-ass revolution is being talked about on the 24 hour news networks and that reason is oil. If America's foreign entanglements were all about protecting civilians we'd have our troops battling half of Africa.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Lhalo

[gotbeer]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I can't believe Cuba even HAS 20,000 doctors let along that many to send to Venezuela 

Actually Cuba has a very substantial healthcare field.  That's one thing that Cuba, under Fidel, invested heavily in.  At one point, the quality of care in Cuba was comparable to the US, but only half the budget or something like that.  Actually still might be as good.  

Oddly, the reason why so many Cuban doctors and nurses are seen overseas, is that they get paid more money doing these types of charity work, than they would at home.  

[floplag]

15 hours ago, Lhalo said:

You can't be serious. If you don't think we have CIA spooks down there rebel rousing and stirring the pot then I have a bridge to sell you. There's only one reason this country's half-ass revolution is being talked about on the 24 hour news networks and that reason is oil. If America's foreign entanglements were all about protecting civilians we'd have our troops battling half of Africa.

Of course we do, but how does that change anything?  Clearly whatever they have done hasnt affected a damn thing. 
I assume you read this morning how Russia has now sent and aircraft carrier?  
This conversation is now pointless, nothing anyone is going to say will get you off the evil oil empire even in the face of foreign aggression so, meh, whatever.    It must be rough to hate your own country so much. 

[Lhalo]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

Of course we do, but how does that change anything?  Clearly whatever they have done hasnt affected a damn thing. 
I assume you read this morning how Russia has now sent and aircraft carrier?  
This conversation is now pointless, nothing anyone is going to say will get you off the evil oil empire even in the face of foreign aggression so, meh, whatever.    It must be rough to hate your own country so much. 

I love my country. What I hate is an interventionalist attitude that has pissed away so much blood and treasure. Who gives a rat's ass if Russia has an aircraft carrier down there? It's not anywhere near our borders so it's not a threat to us. 

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

I love my country. What I hate is an interventionalist attitude that has pissed away so much blood and treasure. Who gives a rat's ass if Russia has an aircraft carrier down there? It's not anywhere near our borders so it's not a threat to us. 

I agree with the pissed away part, weve wasted trillions on global aid that has netted us nothing even when we couldn't afford to do so at the expense of our own people. 

[UndertheHalo]

Government spending to aid Americans ? Lol.  Geez. I wonder who’s for that.  

[floplag]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

Government spending to aid Americans ? Lol.  Geez. I wonder who’s for that.  

Honestly i cant tell anymore, but it doesn't appear to be our own government representation. 
One side is only concerned with tax shelters and off shoring their wealth while the other is siphoning off  money as fast as possible for special interests to pander votes. 
No one seem to care about crumbling infrastructure, failing education, complete loss of manufacturing prowess or anything aside from their own agendas.
If you can find that person or party send them my way cause i don't see them anymore.  

[yvangelfan]

On 5/3/2019 at 12:48 PM, Lhalo said:

I love my country. What I hate is an interventionalist attitude that has pissed away so much blood and treasure. Who gives a rat's ass if Russia has an aircraft carrier down there? It's not anywhere near our borders so it's not a threat to us. 

How close to our border would be OK? 

I'm evolving on this issue. I'm opposed to intervening, but would it be better strategically to nip this disaster in the bud, or wait until things grow much worse.? The citizenry have no weapons. They're not gonna win.

Right now I hope we have under cover @arch stantons down there to help Guaido.

[Lhalo]

42 minutes ago, yvangelfan said:

How close to our border would be OK? 

I'm evolving on this issue. I'm opposed to intervening, but would it be better strategically to nip this disaster in the bud, or wait until things grow much worse.? The citizenry have no weapons. They're not gonna win.

Right now I hope we have under cover @arch stantons down there to help Guaido.

Sounds like they shouldn’t have given up their guns. 

[yvangelfan]

13 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Sounds like they shouldn’t have given up their guns. 

100%

[fan_since79]

Inflation hits 10 million percent and many of the educated class are fleeing the country.

An In-N-Out Double Double meal would run you $670,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/venezuela-inflation-at-10-million-percent-its-time-for-shock-therapy.html

[Jason]

1 hour ago, fan_since79 said:

Inflation hits 10 million percent and many of the educated class are fleeing the country.

An In-N-Out Double Double meal would run you $670,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/venezuela-inflation-at-10-million-percent-its-time-for-shock-therapy.html

They won't be coming here. Their leaders have warned Venezuela citizens about travel to the US amid concerns of violence   

[Adam]

On 5/2/2019 at 2:21 PM, UndertheHalo said:

I’m not pretending about anything Flop. You’re saying things that aren’t true.  And I am telling you they aren’t true.  Literally in the post above this one you said that the Cubans were “holding the country” for Maduro.  I’m not sure how else to interpret that.  The United States doesn’t need to be “isolationist” to stay fu*ck out of other countries internal affairs. Venezuela didn’t ask for our aid.  At least no one who had any right to ask for the United States to intervene in that country.  This isn’t about some noble fight against dictators.  The US is great friends with plenty of dictators.  In Latin America the US was a great ally of Manuel Noriega, until he wasn’t useful anymore.  The same for Saddam Hussein who with the support of the United States fought a devastating war with Iran.  This goes on and on.  Why aren’t we imposing crippling sanctions on the Saudis ? They’re pretty solid abusers of human rights.  This nonsense about “helping” is pure bullshit.  It’s utterly contradictory if you examine the idea at all.  

My position is simply this.  The United States should not be working to sow chaos in Venezuela and the United States should not be in the business of hand picking pretenders as leaders of that country.  Nicolas Maduro should go.  But the this Guaido guy shouldn’t be the one to take over.  His legitimacy is utterly compromised.  

Agreed but this really is the primary function of our government. 

[Blarg]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:48 AM, fan_since79 said:

Inflation hits 10 million percent and many of the educated class are fleeing the country.

An In-N-Out Double Double meal would run you $670,000.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/02/venezuela-inflation-at-10-million-percent-its-time-for-shock-therapy.html

Definitely don't order the fries. It's a rip off.

[Rico]

 

[mtangelsfan]

13 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

No!

[Lhalo]

Bolton really wants that oil. 

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

But keep using that Venezuela card like you did the Chicago card by bashing socialism while championing Vladimir Drumpf And nazi fascism.  Take a civics 101 class that isn’t taught at Prager, Liberty or Trump U in Cousinfuckistan for once from a real professor, not this school of hard knocks bullshit from Charlie Cuck.

[Adam]

Welfare states and socialist nations aren’t the same thing. Are you advocating for more welfare and insane taxes or government controlled industry?

[Taylor]

In today's WTF news, Venezuela was granted a seat on the UN Human Rights Council.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/venezuela-wins-seat-human-rights-council-opposition-191018202510593.html