Middle Class Losing Ground

[ABC]

What do you guys consider a good income for someone living in socal? $75? $100? $150? More? How much income should be saved and invested?

 

In areas with $800-$1,500 per sq. ft. homes, $250K and up. Save and invest 20%.

[Stradling]

Some, yes. It's a dying gig.

Many airlines now use a vendor and because the way it is set up they aren't raking it in. Some skycaps are being phased out by machines. The ones employed by the airlines have a chance to make 200K+. You have to pick up extra shifts, work long hours and work the traveler (something almost all teachers wouldn't know jack shit about).

I know a skycap personally and he can come home with $1K+ on his best days and well over 200K/yr. He has developed relationships with frequent travelers who call before they show up and drop a Benjamin for checking in his golf clubs. Same with strippers. Same with pro athletes. Same with drug dealers. He has college sports teams who need two dedicated skycaps to checkin dozens of crates and bags. Same with musicians.

You'd think this is a fancy airline but it isn't. Yeap, it's the one we've all flown.

His co-workers cruise to 100K/yr working the general traveler and normal working week hours. Tax free tips. So what would they have to make in salary to take home that number? Oh, and kick ass benefits while flying around the world for almost nothing.

It's a taxing job both physically and mentally. You are moving bags and seeing thousands of people daily with hoards of cars passing by your station constantly.

The best thing about the job is that there aren't the stresses of an office job where a project going south on you or your sales numbers plummeting give you sleepless nights, an ulcer and a possible boot out the door. Once you clock out as a skycap, your day is done.

Generally, teachers don't really participate in the real world where you need to hustle to get ahead. They are the types who tend to stay within the lines and cry about it. They get more degrees and certifications that don't add to their skills but they think they now deserve more cash. Many do noble work but it is repetitive and they aren't responsible for innovation. There is no innovate or die. Or hustle or get passed up in teaching on the level for most jobs and careers. Most teachers are clueless about teaching and clueless about how to handle children. There are some brilliant teachers and they can make a difference in a child's life but they are rare. I don't blame poor education on the teachers, however. It's 99% on the parents.

Don't be cheap and tip your skycap because he might have a mortgage in Manhattan Beach to pay for before his back gives out or gets replaced by a robot.

CF8, I struggle reading your generalization of teachers especially when you are responding to a well respected member of the board who happens to be a teacher, it's a pretty shitty thing to do. It's one of those things where maybe you keep your shitty opinion to yourself. Not to mention there are many ways a profession can be stressful and teaching has stress in spades.

Oh as far as tipping your skycap, I would never go cheap, ever, but I would not tip based on what his mortgage might be.

[wopphil]

I used to think $200k per year would essentially let you live just about any way you wanted (within reason, of course). It isn't easy to find work paying that much, and I know plenty of people in high corporate positions making nowhere close to that.

I am sure $200k still provides a nice life, but if someone has a $4,000 mortgage (typical on a $750,000 home), student loan debt and a car or two, that money would go quick. Makes me wonder how people survive off the median family income of $80,000 in Orange County.

[nate]

It all depends.  If you have a good chunk of savings to put down on a house - then you could get along at probably $125k in a family of 3.  If you don't then it has to be at least $150k.  If you want to be in a low crime and good school area.

 

One of the biggest reasons we moved was that even though we are in the range to be comfortable, we wanted to give our daughter more freedom so when she is 25 she can buy her own house in an affordable area with low crime and good schools, instead of waiting until she is 30+ and making $100k a year or whatever that is adjusted for inflation in 17 years to afford a $600k condo.

[Crampknees]

Reading through here looks like Tank just stands out in front and hits on all the moms dropping their kids off. 

[Stradling]

Reading through here looks like Tank just stands out in front and hits on all the moms dropping their kids off.

And they never reject him.

[juansavage1]

What do you mean exactly?

Education is largely intuitive. People have been teaching since the beginning of people. So, you have a bunch of people who try to apply social science techniques to what is natural. We're all people who have been taught things--it's not like we're training monkeys.

It's like taking a class in sales. Yes, there are things to learn, but it's not that difficult a concept.

But, the kicker is that teachers' salaries increase with more classes. Colleges get paid. Teachers get paid. However, the correlation between teacher courses and performance is probably weakly correlated and probably not causal.

I'm talking specifically about theory classes, not classes that teach practical things like lesson plans and discipline techniques.

Now, I'm not 100% cynical. If teachers have a different experience, I respect that.

[juansavage1]

The same for parenting classes. Are parents or teachers better now that we have theory and classes. Oh, and yes, there's a lot of politics. One of the things every teacher reads is "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" by a real Brazilian Communist.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Insurance and real estate/mortgage sales have some high earners. Most are broke but there are a quite a few making sick money. Many have no college education. The reality of those industries is that you build your own business. It is a true measure of hustle or die.

I used to know bartenders and waitresses pulling in $120K. Getting in the right place within the service industry that is heavy on tips can be lucrative. Unfortunately, the jobs come and go. And it's hard to build a family life when you're working evenings and weekends.

yeah, insurance (like loans) are boom or bust. Huge paycheck, huge paycheck, no paycheck for months.

Bartenders make a good amount of money, but it usually caps at good money "in your 20s". Thats a huge point someone needs to pass along to people in that industry. Yeah, you have those nights you pull 300 in tips, but you have a lot of 100 dollar nights too. And then maybe no work for 3 days. Unfortunately, many dont realize that intil theyre in their mid 30s, cant qualify for a loan because of unreported income, and they in reality dont have a job skill that translates into a decent income. I bartended when i was younger and some of those people are still doing it, and hurting now that we're older.

By the way, whats a skycap? Not familiar with the term.

Back in 08 when the economy tanked, one thing i think made it bigger locally is that the boom years of rhe early 2000s led to a lot of people starting their own business that catered to people making money. There were people making a killing for dumb sh*t like dog babysitter, and more traditional jobs like landscaper, pool cleaner, housekeeper etc. Then the economy went bad, the rich people cut out expenses like dog babysitter, and suddenly these people were without a real job skill.

They say most americans are 2 paychecks with homelessness. Its probably not that extreme, but again, far too few people save for a rainy day. Be it loss of a job, or old age. Ive already kind of resigned myself that my 401K money is going to medical when i retire unfortunately

Edited December 15, 2015 by ten ocho recon scout

[juansavage1]

Since I'm ranting:

Have you heard those PSAs that tell parents to talk to their babies? Can you point out a woman who has a baby and doesn't talk to him? And, if there is one, do you think she'll be persuaded by a PSA? Man!

[gotbeer]

By the way, whats a skycap? Not familiar with the term.

 

 

 

They are the guys standing by the curb that will check your bag at the curb.  Most of the big airlines still have them.  The budget guys usually don't, or at least I don't see them much anymore.

 

But if you are traveling, and have to check in bags.  They are awesome.  You just drop your bags off at the curb, they check them and you in.  And you just head for the security checkpoint. 

 

Just think of them as airport bellhops, but they also do the check in stuff also.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

They are the guys standing by the curb that will check your bag at the curb.  Most of the big airlines still have them.  The budget guys usually don't, or at least I don't see them much anymore.

 

But if you are traveling, and have to check in bags.  They are awesome.  You just drop your bags off at the curb, they check them and you in.  And you just head for the security checkpoint. 

 

Just think of them as Las Vegas valet drivers, but they also do the check in stuff also.

 

Edited based on what they can make.  

[nate]

**** that, you have to tip them.  If you are a priority flyer, just walk up to the line and drop your bags off.

[Stradling]

Nate are you saying you don't have to tip skycaps?

[nate]

No, I am saying they expect you to tip them.  Not tipping someone for checking in the bag that I carry to them.

 

I just go inside and go through the frequent flyer line and show them my ticket from my phone, takes the same amount of time.

[Adam]

Why do you hate black people, Nate?

[Tank]

Some, yes. It's a dying gig.

 

Many airlines now use a vendor and because the way it is set up they aren't raking it in. Some skycaps are being phased out by machines. The ones employed by the airlines have a chance to make 200K+. You have to pick up extra shifts, work long hours and work the traveler (something almost all teachers wouldn't know jack shit about). 

 

 

Generally, teachers don't really participate in the real world where you need to hustle to get ahead. They are the types who tend to stay within the lines and cry about it. They get more degrees and certifications that don't add to their skills but they think they now deserve more cash. Many do noble work but it is repetitive and they aren't responsible for innovation. There is no innovate or die. Or hustle or get passed up in teaching on the level for most jobs and careers. Most teachers are clueless about teaching and clueless about how to handle children. There are some brilliant teachers and they can make a difference in a child's life but they are rare. I don't blame poor education on the teachers, however. It's 99% on the parents.

 

 

i don't know what your deal is against teachers, but i'm guessing either you had really bad experiences in school, you sucked as a student, or you're just simply trolling like a boss.

 

any time you want to sack up and come face a hundred 12/13 year olds, plan interesting lessons for them, and deal with all the crap they're able and willing to bring, plus their parents, give me a holler. i'll give you my classes for the day, but i doubt you'd be able to last until lunch.

 

what i do know is that you haven't got the first clue about what a teacher does or what a teacher has to go through. without a doubt in my mind, it would be best if just closed your ill-informed yapper about something you know so very little about.

[Stradling]

i don't know what your deal is against teachers, but i'm guessing either you had really bad experiences in school, you sucked as a student, or you're just simply trolling like a boss.

any time you want to sack up and come face a hundred 12/13 year olds, plan interesting lessons for them, and deal with all the crap they're able and willing to bring, plus their parents, give me a holler. i'll give you my classes for the day, but i doubt you'd be able to last until lunch.

what i do know is that you haven't got the first clue about what a teacher does or what a teacher has to go through. without a doubt in my mind, it would be best if just closed your ill-informed yapper about something you know so very little about.

His deal is to be a judgmental guy that exaggerates everything possible, it's kind of sad. The kind of guy that is more interested in spewing his "ill-informed" opinion than actually trying to change someones opinion or getting people to understand his opinion. Basically a loud mouth.

[gotbeer]

i don't know what your deal is against teachers, but i'm guessing either you had really bad experiences in school, you sucked as a student, or you're just simply trolling like a boss.

 

any time you want to sack up and come face a hundred 12/13 year olds, plan interesting lessons for them, and deal with all the crap they're able and willing to bring, plus their parents, give me a holler. i'll give you my classes for the day, but i doubt you'd be able to last until lunch.

 

what i do know is that you haven't got the first clue about what a teacher does or what a teacher has to go through. without a doubt in my mind, it would be best if just closed your ill-informed yapper about something you know so very little about.

 

Whenever I see Tank post.  I think of Tank like this.

 

 

 

Except with bigger boobs.

[ten ocho recon scout]

They are the guys standing by the curb that will check your bag at the curb. Most of the big airlines still have them. The budget guys usually don't, or at least I don't see them much anymore.

But if you are traveling, and have to check in bags. They are awesome. You just drop your bags off at the curb, they check them and you in. And you just head for the security checkpoint.

Just think of them as airport bellhops, but they also do the check in stuff also.

damn, had no idea. Pretty crazy that those guys would make a decent living. At least enough for exchanging the time of checking a bag for cash.

[Tank]

Whenever I see Tank post.  I think of Tank like this.

 

 

 

Except with bigger boobs.

 

it's hard work watching kids work on worksheet after worksheet after worksheet.

 

'cause that's all we really do, y'know?

[mtangelsfan]

Wow, tank is fired up.

 

We have your back man.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Whenever I see Tank post. I think of Tank like this.

Except with bigger boobs.

they were bigger until he cut out meat

[Tank]

thank goodness for my manzier.

[Hollyw00d]

Boobs are the first thing to go