Iran, world powers reach landmark nuclear agreement

[Glen]

Seriously, why does the USA get to determine who gets nukes and who doesn't?

[juansavage1]

I forgot, where did they find Osama?  Pakistan?

 

Where is ISIS and the Taliban still active?  Pakistan?

 

Interesting...

Yes, but the actual government is helpful, sometimes.

[juansavage1]

Seriously, why does the USA get to determine who gets nukes and who doesn't?

This is the thinking that I was trying to pinpoint. There are many who feel that the US is too powerful and that it doesn't have the right to prevent other countries from aquiring nuclear weapons. I think that's Obama.

 

To those people, I'll offer how the my side thinks on this issue by way of analogy, using something you do care about. Let's say a Christian baker says that it will bake a cake for an all-male wedding, but prevents the government from asking people whether they were turned down or not. In addition, the Christian baker won't let the government inspect its business for anti-gay propaganda without warning and approval of his church. Aren't you suspicious that by preventing an effective enforcement mechanism, that the Christian bakers intend to cheat and deny men the right to love each other?

[Glen]

Cakes equal nukes. Got it. Another excellent analogy.

[Lhalo]

I think your lefty conspiracy machine is on autopilot. Obama did support the rebels in Libya against Khaddafi after the war started. In Syria, the Assad is still in power, along with Isis now.

Ha! That's the first time I've ever been called a lefty in my life.

[UndertheHalo]

The thing is, nothing was going to stop Iran from getting a weapon if it so chose.  Not sanctions and not airstrikes.  That ship sailed when Bush failed to get a deal.  The only possible option to achieve that objective is a full on invasion to topple the Iranian government.  Unless you advocate possibly starting world war 3, thats not really an option.  Iran is not like Iraq, the entire middle east would burn and it would assuredly be a an absolute bloodbath for all parties involved.  The price tag to make Netanyahou happy would be 10's of thousands of American lives.  Its unspeakable to even think about starting a war with Iran.  You guys are also not noting that the rest of the important world powers wanted a deal with Iran.  China and Russia were not going to play ball against Iran forever.  They certainly would never go to war against Iran.  This deal isnt a good thing, its a GREAT thing.

[mtangelsfan]

I'm not sure it will be a great deal when Israel drops a nuke on Tehran.

[UndertheHalo]

I'm not sure it will be a great deal when Israel drops a nuke on Tehran.

Then let Israel pay the price for that. No one is going to nuke anyone.

[juansavage1]

If everybody is agreed that Iran should not have nukes, then the quality of this deal depends on whether it accomolishes that goal. Does it? The president says it does and some people say it doesn't.

[InsideThePark]

The thing is, nothing was going to stop Iran from getting a weapon if it so chose.  Not sanctions and not airstrikes.  That ship sailed when Bush failed to get a deal.  The only possible option to achieve that objective is a full on invasion to topple the Iranian government.  Unless you advocate possibly starting world war 3, thats not really an option.  Iran is not like Iraq, the entire middle east would burn and it would assuredly be a an absolute bloodbath for all parties involved.  The price tag to make Netanyahou happy would be 10's of thousands of American lives.  Its unspeakable to even think about starting a war with Iran.  You guys are also not noting that the rest of the important world powers wanted a deal with Iran.  China and Russia were not going to play ball against Iran forever.  They certainly would never go to war against Iran.  This deal isnt a good thing, its a GREAT thing.

Who knows if it will turn out to be a great thing. The people raising questions over the agreement may very well be right that it's a matter of when and not if Iran violates the terms. I would say that even if they do and the deal falls apart, diplomacy was worth a try. Republicans can't come up with an alternative that doesn't involve the eventual use of force.

[juansavage1]

A suicidal regime with a nuclear weapon is not something to experiment with. The alternative to force and this deal is to keep putting pressure on Iran and supporting dissident movements.

[UndertheHalo]

A suicidal regime with a nuclear weapon is not something to experiment with. The alternative to force and this deal is to keep putting pressure on Iran and supporting dissident movements.

I don't think there's any evidence that suggests the Iranian government is "suicidal" in fact their actions are fairly predictable and rational. It's a mistake to think that Iran is a state like North Korea, and their desire to acquire nuclear weapons is not a crazy one. Just because they have them, it does not mean they will use them. In addition keep in mind that Iran no doubt has devastating chemical weapon capabilities. They also have the means to deliver such weapons to Saudi Arabia, our bases in the region and Israel. Just because they behave in a way that isn't suitable to our interests it doesn't mean they are crazy. Have no doubt that Iran knows what a war with west will cost them. They don't want it. Iran pursues policies that strengthen Iran( like any other nation), thus their efforts to exert influence over opportune parts of the Middle East. Particularly places where Shiites exist because it is easier for them to be influential in those areas. I say the deal is a "great one" because even if they don't intend on shutting down their program forever we have certainly made it so they will take longer then they would have. In addition, this gives Iran an opportunity to escape being isolated and hopefully make them value healthy relations with the west.

[UndertheHalo]

Who knows if it will turn out to be a great thing. The people raising questions over the agreement may very well be right that it's a matter of when and not if Iran violates the terms. I would say that even if they do and the deal falls apart, diplomacy was worth a try. Republicans can't come up with an alternative that doesn't involve the eventual use of force.

Certainly we don't know but as I've said, Iran walking away from negotiations was going get a bomb within 12 months. Many think even less time. It is my opinion ( and I don't presume to be all knowing but it's what I believe) that military action against Iran is simply not an option. Israel has her own nukes, perhaps hundreds of them. Iran knows that it will lose in any nuclear exchange. Even if it's just israel vs. Iran. I don't agree that the world can't live with a nuclear armed Iran. I'm not suggesting that it doesn't matter, the idea of an nuke arms race in the Middle East is not a good one, but the alternative (war) is not worth stopping one. Again, in my opinion.

[arch stanton]

The Saudis have been public critics, of course, but I think behind closed doors they celebrate this because it now justifies them pursuing their nuclear program with at least the same levels. And even if the Iranians gave up every rifle, sword, knife in the country Netanyehaa would be railing against the evil rocks they intend to hurl at Israel.

[Puget Sound Angel]

What's the Republican alternative to this deal? Oh yeah, war.

[arch stanton]

What's the Republican alternative to this deal? Oh yeah, war.

The perpetual sanctions and isolation that worked so well with countries like North Korea, Cuba, Lybia......

[Crampknees]

Isn't Congress going to vote against this anyway, then Obama has to come back and say "oh no you didn't?"

 

My facebook was filled with rants on this(none proofread for spelling).  Since Obama's first term he was here to kill Americans, remember. We are getting nuked before the holidays. And I was not aware Obama has already had thousands of Americans beheaded by ISIS. The best was FEMA has ordered 250 million body bags for Americans to be killed. 

 

I am moving to Alaska and hope the traitor in the white house forgets it is part of America.  

[Blarg]

yes, like Hillary Clinton...who I believe has also come out and said her vote was a mistake unlike her most likely opponent Jeb!

Jeb was never a congressman voting on whether to go to war. Red, you really need to focus on what is true instead of beat the podium with your shoe.

[Crampknees]

If Obama is having us nuked it would be cheaper to just use a few of our thousands. Much better gas mileage for a nuke from Kansas then Iran. 

[Blarg]

I like how just because they have a metropolitan city that makes them not mostly a rural people.

It is like taking a picture of Oklahoma city and saying the state is mostly a thriving metropolis. Edited July 16, 2015 by notti

[juansavage1]

The perpetual sanctions and isolation that worked so well with countries like North Korea, Cuba, Lybia......

Please know what you're talking about.

It did work with Libya. The same person who negotiated with Iran negotiated with N Korea. We intervened to prevent Cuba from having nuclear capability.

[juansavage1]

I don't think there's any evidence that suggests the Iranian government is "suicidal" in fact their actions are fairly predictable and rational. It's a mistake to think that Iran is a state like North Korea, and their desire to acquire nuclear weapons is not a crazy one. Just because they have them, it does not mean they will use them. In addition keep in mind that Iran no doubt has devastating chemical weapon capabilities. They also have the means to deliver such weapons to Saudi Arabia, our bases in the region and Israel. Just because they behave in a way that isn't suitable to our interests it doesn't mean they are crazy. Have no doubt that Iran knows what a war with west will cost them. They don't want it. Iran pursues policies that strengthen Iran( like any other nation), thus their efforts to exert influence over opportune parts of the Middle East. Particularly places where Shiites exist because it is easier for them to be influential in those areas. I say the deal is a "great one" because even if they don't intend on shutting down their program forever we have certainly made it so they will take longer then they would have. In addition, this gives Iran an opportunity to escape being isolated and hopefully make them value healthy relations with the west.

Maybe they're waiting for nuclear weapons. The Iranian regime isn't crazy in the irrational sense. They do have a suicidal ideology based on a religious idea.

[arch stanton]

Please know what you're talking about.

It did work with Libya. The same person who negotiated with Iran negotiated with N Korea. We intervened to prevent Cuba from having nuclear capability.

Kim's grandson runs North Korea. Still. Massive force sitting on the South Korean border. Still.

We blockaded and threatened war with the Soviets to prevent the Cuban leadership, who are still in power 50+ years later, from having nukes and all we ended up with were boat people. Sorry Elian.

Dropping a bomb 50 meters from Qadaffi's tent persuaded him to mellow out but he too stayed in power for another 25 years. Now that he's gone the leading export from Lybia is Eritrean refugees bound for Italy. And of course, Republican talking points(Benghazi).

 

The sanctions and economic isolation devastated their people but did nothing to change the power structure. All the sanctions accomplished was forcing me to move halfway around the world to buy a Persian carpet and a box of Montecristos.

 

From where I sit these people love to use their iphones to trash America while they sip Pepsi and smoke Marlboros. Then they pile into the Tahoe or the Expedition, head to the airport for their Disney package vacation. In the eyes of the corporate ownership of the US of A Iran is an untapped market and Cuba is a source of cheap labor and resort land right off our coast. I think the past decade has persuaded our leadership that it's better to let the dictators dictate as long as we can still make money from them. Long live capitalism!

So we can look at cases where we did create a regime change, like Iraq. That fixed everything.

[gotbeer]

Then let Israel pay the price for that. No one is going to nuke anyone.

 

Only the US has used a nuke on another country.  I don't think any superpower will ever use a nuke on another country, because the result would be worldwide extinction.  

 

Now if a dirt farmer used a nuke on another country, I think that would be the rallying cry for all nations to pretty much wipe that country out.  Whether it be North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, India, or Israel.  That should be the indefensible crime in the world, that both the west and the red blocks should get behind.

[Jay]

Why would any country want nuclear weapons unless they can foresee a scenario in which they might be used?

 

So they can threaten other countries, I guess.

 

I'm hearing in the news that the Administration thinks that this deal somehow prevents a nuclear arms race in the Middle East.  I don't see how that can be true.  Basically this deal sets a timetable for when Iran will have nuclear weapons.  All the other countries are now on the same timetable.