Grantland: Scioscia like the way it feels

[James]

With the Dodgers front office,why would they want Mike if it is true that he does not use saber stats? If he went to the Dodgers I would find these stories to be obviously false. It just simply wouldn't make sense.

[stormngt]

He will opt out.

Sosh might opt out just for a chance to have a better roster. This team has three possibly four offensive players that are worth anything. I put Aybar in there because historically he has been a very solid player on both sides of the ball. Everyone on here that is vilianizing him, calling him an egomaniac, well if you stay true to that belief then you would also have to believe that having that kind of ego would make him want to win. He can find a better roster to win with, hell he can probably do that and only have his home games 40 miles away. As far as power, guys like Scioscia if he was on the open market would automatically get clauses in his contract that allowed him to be involved in player acquistiion and roster. Please note that I haven't put Scioscia on a pedestool in this post, it is just a matter of fact that managers with this track record have options and also have power on the open market.

[Make Angels Great Again]

That's the some if it that I believe.

 

However, the writer makes it sound like Scioscia puts absolutely zero preparation into his games, or doesn't even bother to look at scouting reports on the opposing pitcher. Basically, it sounds like the writer it making it sound like Scioscia tells his batters to go up there and just hit.

[DoubleOffTheWall]

Much of the journalism that has come out since this incident has inconsistencies, generally:

 

1) Blaming Dipoto for the Hamilton signing. That was clearly Arte

 

2) Lauding Dipoto for enhancing the farm system and pitching core, while at the same time wondering why the offense has suffered (needed to trade Kendrick and Trumbo to strengthen the pitching staff)

 

3) Stating that Scioscia butted heads with Reagins. From what I know, Reagins was doing whatever Mike wanted him to do, including going out and getting Wells at the expense of Napoli.

 

My opinion is that this organization needs a complete restart at the top. Any more of this and we'll soon be hearing "Trout demands trade". After that, this organization will be become the LAstros, the same team that will ironically replace us at the top of the AL west for probably years to come. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by DoubleOffTheWall

[AngelsFaninGA]

This is what i am talking about a media circus. With the Internet anyone can post any narrative they want. With the events one sided statements such as those posted in the article have an appearance of accuracy. I don't want to see Sosh go but it inevitable. There is too much damage done to the credibility of the franchise.

 

 

Well if we didn't want to damage the credibility of the franchise we could have handled the Hamilton situation much better (or better yet, not signing him in the first place), and we could have created a workplace environment where the GM did not see the need to bail in the middle of the season. We brought this upon ourselves, and the bad reputation the organization is developing is mostly deserved. 

[YouthofToday]

Relying on feel = laziness.

You simply have to use data to make decisions.

[Inside Pitch]

This is what i am talking about a media circus. With the Internet anyone can post any narrative they want. With the events one sided statements such as those posted in the article have an appearance of accuracy. I don't want to see Sosh go but it inevitable. There is too much damage done to the credibility of the franchise.

 

 

This Angels situation is a hot topic, the Angels ARE in fact a mess right now so everyone will pen a story pointing to that same conclusion.  That doesn't make the media evil, they have a job to do and an audience they need to reach.

 

You can't get mad at them but you can fact check their story to see how much of it is real .vs perception.

[stormngt]

You missed read my post. I am saying Scioscia has to go beause of the mmedia curcus. I never said the media circus was unwarranted. Taking everything into consideration : Hamilton, Scoiscia/battle with JD, JD battle with Moreno the credibility of the franchise is in shambles. Moreno knows the importance of public relations and image. He is going to have to let Scioscia go. Which would be a "please opt out" wink wink.

quote name="AngelsFaninGA" post="617207" timestamp="1435860387"]

Well if we didn't want to damage the credibility of the franchise we could have handled the Hamilton situation much better (or better yet, not signing him in the first place), and we could have created a workplace environment where the GM did not see the need to bail in the middle of the season. We brought this upon ourselves, and the bad reputation the organization is developing is mostly deserved.

[stormngt]

I am not blaming the media. The circus was brought on by the Angels themselves. The media is playing into the story. I am saying in order to get credibility back Sosh has to move on after the season.

This Angels situation is a hot topic, the Angels ARE in fact a mess right now so everyone will pen a story pointing to that same conclusion. That doesn't make the media evil, they have a job to do and an audience they need to reach.

You can't get mad at them but you can fact check their story to see how much of it is real .vs perception.

[Reveille1984]

Relying on feel = laziness.

You simply have to use data to make decisions.

 

I'll have you know Scioscia's FEEL+ is well above league average!

[Tyler]

No. They won 98 games last season. Joyce was brought in to supplement/cover for Hamilton when he got his inevitable injury and share DH duties with Cron (who is not a Major League caliber hitter). Even then, he is WELL under his career averages, as is Iannetta. Freese has actually been an average hitter this year. Not sure who WW is.

 

It was certainly not Dipoto's fault that Hamilton hurt Arte's pride and therefore caused himself to be run out of town on a rail. It was not Dipoto's fault that due to the money owed to Pujols and Hamilton (Arte's signings, not Dipoto's) and Arte's refusal to exceed the luxury tax threshold for even one season, he had little wiggle room to obtain what little hitting talent was available during the offseason.

 

Not that there seemed to be a need to do so, since the offense was so good last year.

 

WW = waiver wire

 

So this is an Arte issue and not a Mike Scioscia issue? That I could believe.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Shane

[AngelsFaninGA]

You missed read my post. I am saying Scioscia has to go beause of the mmedia curcus. I never said the media circus was unwarranted. Taking everything into consideration : Hamilton, Scoiscia/battle with JD, JD battle with Moreno the credibility of the franchise is in shambles. Moreno knows the importance of public relations and image. He is going to have to let Scioscia go. Which would be a "please opt out" wink wink.

quote name="AngelsFaninGA" post="617207" timestamp="1435860387"]

Well if we didn't want to damage the credibility of the franchise we could have handled the Hamilton situation much better (or better yet, not signing him in the first place), and we could have created a workplace environment where the GM did not see the need to bail in the middle of the season. We brought this upon ourselves, and the bad reputation the organization is developing is mostly deserved.

 

I doubt Dipoto leaves if he knows Scioscia will be gone at season's end, so I think Scioscia stays. And the fact that this whole charade even played out shows that Scioscia doesn't really care about what the media thinks. If anything, the media circus will cause him to dig his heels in further. 

[ELEVEN]

Yeah, but it might not be a good fit after this year, once MacPhail & Co give Amaro the boot he needed three years ago. They'll find a way to dump most of those veteran players on somebody once Amaro's gone.

Now is time to chase Chase?

[stormngt]

First i think Dipoto departure had more to do with Arte interference than Scioscia. So JDs decision wouldn't be based on what Sosh does.

Second it is JDs departure that created this circus. Or at least brought it to a boiling point. Therefore JDs departure in contributing to Sosh departure. He would not have known that prior to his resignation.

Finally it doesn't matter how Sosh feels. Moreno is caught in the middle of the circus. The only way to get credibility back is to let Scioscia go. Arte may not want to do it but he had to. Either that or sell the team as Stradler suggested in a previous post.

Also remember this. I have been the biggest Scuoscia "lover" on this board. If I recognize he has to go for the credibility of the franchise don't you think Moreno would recognize it?

I doubt Dipoto leaves if he knows Scioscia will be gone at season's end, so I think Scioscia stays. And the fact that this whole charade even played out shows that Scioscia doesn't really care about what the media thinks. If anything, the media circus will cause him to dig his heels in further.

[Halos of Anaheim]

So Scioscia is an SJW? 

[Mark68]

Now is time to chase Chase?

The time to chase Chase has passed.

 

The time for the Phillies to get anything of value for Chase has also passed.

 

Amaro = the Scioscia of GMs

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

I'd like to believe that former pitchers would have spoken out against this, if there was any truth to it.

If a philosophy wrecked a career, say in the case of Frieri, he would have been running his mouth.

Greinke is another guy who probably would have offered some insight, if he was told to pitch a specific way - and against his best pitches.

I'm sure there are other pitchers we've had that could have thrown Butcher and Sosh under the bus, if they were told to pitch one way only.

Seems far fetched.

[seenoevil]

We literally have an elephant in the room

[bloodbrother]

The Frieri story doesn't make sense to me. Dude had to start throwing a 2nd pitch because his fastball was garbage against RHB. He neeeded something else vs them but he could never command it well enough

[stevestevens]

This whole thread is getting AO more excited than a hooker wearing an Angels hat in a dirtbag baseball shirt working the corner of the Pyramid before the big grudge match with UCSB and her main trick just happens to be appeasing WWE wrestling move fetishes.

[Mark68]

I'd like to believe that former pitchers would have spoken out against this, if there was any truth to it.

If a philosophy wrecked a career, say in the case of Frieri, he would have been running his mouth.

Greinke is another guy who probably would have offered some insight, if he was told to pitch a specific way - and against his best pitches.

I'm sure there are other pitchers we've had that could have thrown Butcher and Sosh under the bus, if they were told to pitch one way only.

Seems far fetched.

Current players are not likely to say anything because they still want to have employment...especially guys like Frieri, who has now been released from three? different clubs.

 

Greinke wasn't here that long, and may not have had too much influence from Butcher & Sosh.

[seenoevil]

I'm sorry Jerry!

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Current players are not likely to say anything because they still want to have employment...especially guys like Frieri, who has now been released from three? different clubs.

Greinke wasn't here that long, and may not have had too much influence from Butcher & Sosh.

Yeah wouldn't be a current player. Just former guys. Many dudes talk bad about their ex/teams and perhaps do more hinting at he situation.

Greinke always seemed pissed to be pulled early by the Angels management in game.

[robblin17]

Scioscia opting out would be the best thing for this organization. It is going to become very nasty around these parts and people are only going to become more and more frustrated and upset with Scioscia. He has no excuses now. No one is holding him back and no one is telling him what to do. He will be the scapegoat if this team fails.

 

I have said this countless times on here and for many years: this organization will NEVER win another championship with Mike Scioscia at the helm. I would welcome any other team taking him and would never look back. Take his HOF credentials, take his bland attitude, his worthless cliches, mind numbing strategic decisions, his inability to work with someone, and enjoy it all. I cannot wait for that day. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by robblin17

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Here is Jonah Keri's longer form article on Grantland: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/mlb-mike-scoscia-jerry-dipoto-los-angeles-angels-resignation/

 

 

According to him Scioscia takes a "feel" based approach to opponents and can't be bothered by scouting reports. Butcher wants everyone to pitch down and away no matter what.

 

Methinks we have found the problem. We have a manager who ignores trends and quantifiable data, and a pitching coach who wants every pitcher to become completely predictable.

 

For this we just lost our general manager. Great job, Arte.