Bernie Sanders

[Angelsjunky]

http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/ceo-income/full-list

Problem is people make stuff up to prove their point. Does Bernie do that?

 

I don't know. I didn't make anything up, by the way, although if the list you offered is relatively representative, it sounds like the "343x" is off. But it is still MUCH higher, on average, than other developed countries.

 

find the numbers per state in the shrinking of the middle class.  California has had more of it than any other state.  Democratic governor and legislature.

 

Problem is both sides are screwing the middle-class.  It is like that scene in South Park with Spielberg and Lucas screwing Indiana Jones.  Except Indy in my scenario is the middle class and they are getting screwed by a donkey and an elephant.

 

Which does not sound at all pleasant.

 

I agree. Both Republicans and Democrats, by and large, serve the corporate overlords.

 

Bernie says it well here:

 

Something of a side note, but relevant: have you seen Sanders in an interview? Dude is awkward and jumpy. It seems like he'd come off bad in a debate.

 

Maybe he needs to channel his inner Howard Beale:

 

[juansavage1]

Sometimes regional people can afford to be more pure. When he needs money or has to appeal to a broader base, you might see him modulate.

On paper they have a lot of similarities, but in terms of who they are as politicians there is a world of difference. To boil it down, Hillary is a corporatist while Bernie will actually go up against corporations, insurance companies, etc. Hillary is a political chameleon, while Bernie actually has integrity and will express what he thinks, not just try to determine the "political temperature" and say what he thinks people want to hear, like Hillary does (e.g. gay marriage - she was against it just a couple years ago, now is for it).

As I see it, the reason the middle class has been shrinking and the US has been essentially declining for 40 years now is that wealth has "trickled up" to the wealthy. Consider:

Number of billionaires in US: In 1985 it was 13, in 2015 it is 492.

CEOs in Britain and Canada make 20x the average worker; in Japan it is 11x. In the US? 343x.

Meanwhile the middle class continues to shrink, with salaries going down and cost of living going up.

Tell me there's not something wrong with this picture.

[HaloMagic]

I do. Socialism in itself isn't immoral as long as it follows the natural law precept of allowing for ownership. So, when something's not intrinsically evil, you examine it and see if it accomplishes your goals.

Ayn Rand followers think capitalism intrinsically good and socialism intrinsically evil, based upon nothing, since they're atheists also.

Socialists see collective ownership as the end of a historical process. Practically, they think it's always good, but it's hard to say if they think that philosophically.

A good saying I follow is that when asked if something is the job of government, the libertarian says "no," the socialist says "yes," and the conservative says, "well, I don't think so."

The kind of socialism practiced in the US and the Western world, devoid of any moral standards of behavior, actually encourage behavior detrimental to the poor, like fatherlessness, family break up, indolence, etc.

So, if this is relevant, everybody in my family has always worked and have had intact families. We've also used public schools, police departments, etc. We've worked for the government. Almost everybody except for the rich are takers in some ways, although it seems to work out OK.

Your ****ing posts are getting harder and harder to read.

[juansavage1]

Hard like difficult to understand or hard because you don't like them? I did try to cover several things there.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Spirit]

Do you think a textbook or class doesn't list the core assumptions of a particular philosophy and generalize about its adherents' beliefs?

Stop fighting and learn.

 

 

Yeah!  Come on Glen ...

 

 

[juansavage1]

How much of the shrinking of the middle class just the growth of the lower class because of immigration?

find the numbers per state in the shrinking of the middle class. California has had more of it than any other state. Democratic governor and legislature.

Problem is both sides are screwing the middle-class. It is like that scene in South Park with Spielberg and Lucas screwing Indiana Jones. Except Indy in my scenario is the middle class and they are getting screwed by a donkey and an elephant.

Which does not sound at all pleasant.

[TobiasFunke]

Why Bernie Sanders Will Become the Democratic Nominee and Defeat Any Republican in 2016

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/why-bernie-sanders-will-become-the-democratic-nominee_b_7685364.html

[Adam]

Millennials hate work. amirite? 

[juansavage1]

 

Why Bernie Sanders Will Become the Democratic Nominee and Defeat Any Republican in 2016

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/why-bernie-sanders-will-become-the-democratic-nominee_b_7685364.html

 

Please, Dems. Make this happen. 

 

Isn't it funny how ideologues always predict that their ideology will win in the future?

[TobiasFunke]

Juan Savage is a fan of Bernie. You heard it here folks.

[Adam]

He's one of those dudes, like Kerry, who will overpoll. People will tell everyone they voted for him but when they get in the box they'll get nervous and vote for Hillary (in the primary) or the R (in the GE)

[Jay]

I think we already know that half of his party will stay home if he's the nominee.  So he's not going to be the nominee.

[Puget Sound Angel]

I'll be voting for Bernie in my Democratic presidential caucus next February.

[Adam]

I will be voting for mushrooms on my pizza instead of olives during our primaries

Edited July 1, 2015 by Adam

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I will be voting for mushrooms on my pizza instead of olives during our primaries

 

Olives suck.

[Tank]

Olives suck.

 

you suck.

 

olives, onions, and pineapple/green bell peppers, FTW.

[mtangelsfan]

Olives............

 

the dirt of the vegetable world.

[arch stanton]

I'll take the olives and the anchovies and all the stuff most people don't want on their pizza

[yvangelfan]

He won't be on the ballot then unless Hilary chooses him to run as VP. He'd be a good choice for her.

 

 

Her choice will be Julian Castro from Texas for VP.

[juansavage1]

Her choice will be Julian Castro from Texas for VP.

If she picks a Dominican, she could motivate two core constituencies with one nominee, unless Torri Hunter blows the whistle.

[TobiasFunke]

The problem I have with socialism is that it is founded upon the knowledge that men are no angels (which is true) and gives all the power to an elite group of men who are also not angels.

How is that different than what we have now? lol

[juansavage1]

The problem I have with socialism is that it is founded upon the knowledge that men are no angels (which is true) and gives all the power to an elite group of men who are also not angels.

I'm not contradicting you. I wanted to add something. I don't claim that socialism doesn't work because "working" means different things to different people. Some people prefer security and a flatter disparity curve to economic freedom and risk (women especially feel this way which is why single women vote dem and why the dems here vote like girls). And,that's OK with me. Or,at least it's not immoral.

Now, Marxism’s real flaw, whether in economics,feminism, or anything else is the beginning premise. In economics,the marxist premise is that people are interchangeable cogs and disparity exists because one group oppresses another. Marxs garden of eden is a society where everybody was equal because property had not been invented. Contrast this to the idea that some people or families are more deserving than others. You can see how differently each society would order itself.

[Crampknees]

I'll take the olives and the anchovies and all the stuff most people don't want on their pizza

I am with you on that, especially like green olives.  I always order a veggie pizza then put anchovies on it, so I guess it is no longer a veggie pizza. 

 

It is how Ho Chi Minh liked his pizza. 

[TobiasFunke]

10,000 people listened to him in Madison yesterday

[Vegas Halo Fan]

you suck.

 

olives, onions, and pineapple/green bell peppers, FTW.

 

Or what I would call a garbage pizza. Onions, peppers and I don't get along at all.