Bernie Sanders

[mtangelsfan]

I would vote for either one of those two before I would vote for Clinton and the round of clowns up for the reps.

 

Well, I will be voting for Johnson if he is the Libertarian on the ticket.

[nate]

Gary Johnson and Bernie Sanders for the most part have very different politics, especially economically.  That would be interesting.  I would vote for them over Clinton.

 

They won't run together though and I wont be voting for Sanders or Clinton.  As long as Johnson runs again I will vote for him.

[mtangelsfan]

Nate, you and I disagree a lot politically but we will both be voting for Johnson.

 

lol

[nate]

We agree on a lot too.  But we are Example A on why the two party system doesn't work.  Not nearly enough diversity and compromise.

[Adam]

Democracy doesn't really work

[Jay]

Not when you have 9 judges deciding everything

[nate]

I actually think that is one part of our government that works the best.  No squabbling and delaying going on in the judicial.  Meanwhile congress is as petty and demented as it gets.  The President is just a power hungry tool.

[Make Angels Great Again]

[juansavage1]

Both Bernie and Hillary are socialists. Is there an issue they disagree upon? 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

People don't understand socialism.

 

Some people equate it with communism, and it is nowhere near the same thing. The word is thrown around by many who don't fully understand its meaning to identify things that they don't like. My grandfather lived in a socialist country, and I am grateful that he did. I never had to be concerned about where he was going to live or where the money would come from for his food, medicine or medical care. People in Canada aren't bankrupted by life necessities when they become too old to remain in the work force.

[TobiasFunke]

Both Bernie and Hillary are socialists. Is there an issue they disagree upon?

Hillary is a Socialist? Do tell...

[juansavage1]

TobiasFunke, on 26 Jun 2015 - 6:00 PM, said:

Hillary is a Socialist? Do tell...

Hillary believes in socialistic policies. Do you think Sanders is a socialist? If so, can you tell me where Hillary and Sanders disagree or, for that matter, where Hillary disagrees with socialists in Europe of Canada. I know Hillary benefits from capitalism, but socialists have always done that. Edited June 27, 2015 by Juan Savage

[TobiasFunke]

You believe in socialist policies also Juan. Or do you not pay taxes and enjoy the benefits of a police department, Public schools, and the like?

[juansavage1]

I do. Socialism in itself isn't immoral as long as it follows the natural law precept of allowing for ownership. So, when something's not intrinsically evil, you examine it and see if it accomplishes your goals. 

 

Ayn Rand followers think capitalism intrinsically good and socialism intrinsically evil, based upon nothing, since they're atheists also. 

 

Socialists see collective ownership as the end of a historical process. Practically, they think it's always good, but it's hard to say if they think that philosophically. 

 

A good saying I follow is that when asked if something is the job of government, the libertarian says "no," the socialist says "yes," and the conservative says, "well, I don't think so." 

 

The kind of socialism practiced in the US and the Western world, devoid of any moral standards of behavior, actually encourage behavior detrimental to the poor, like fatherlessness, family break up, indolence, etc. 

 

So, if this is relevant, everybody in my family has always worked and have had intact families. We've also used public schools, police departments, etc. We've worked for the government. Almost everybody except for the rich are takers in some ways, although it seems to work out OK. 

[TobiasFunke]

Most would argue that the rich are exceptionally good takers in this country. We have a ****ed up version of capitalism in this country.

[juansavage1]

Most would argue that the rich are exceptionally good takers in this country. We have a ****ed up version of capitalism in this country.

That's the case with Solyndra and other schemes designed by government. 

[juansavage1]

But,what are the different policies Supported by Hillary and Sanders?

[Glen]

Not when you have 9 judges deciding everything

Let the butthurt flow through you...good, good...

[Glen]

I do. Socialism in itself isn't immoral as long as it follows the natural law precept of allowing for ownership. So, when something's not intrinsically evil, you examine it and see if it accomplishes your goals.

Ayn Rand followers think capitalism intrinsically good and socialism intrinsically evil, based upon nothing, since they're atheists also.

Socialists see collective ownership as the end of a historical process. Practically, they think it's always good, but it's hard to say if they think that philosophically.

A good saying I follow is that when asked if something is the job of government, the libertarian says "no," the socialist says "yes," and the conservative says, "well, I don't think so."

The kind of socialism practiced in the US and the Western world, devoid of any moral standards of behavior, actually encourage behavior detrimental to the poor, like fatherlessness, family break up, indolence, etc.

So, if this is relevant, everybody in my family has always worked and have had intact families. We've also used public schools, police departments, etc. We've worked for the government. Almost everybody except for the rich are takers in some ways, although it seems to work out OK.

Can you post anything that isn't both a hackneyed stereotype and an absolute?

[juansavage1]

Can you post anything that isn't both a hackneyed stereotype and an absolute?

Do you think a textbook or class doesn't list the core assumptions of a particular philosophy and generalize about its adherents' beliefs?

Stop fighting and learn.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Angelsjunky]

Both Bernie and Hillary are socialists. Is there an issue they disagree upon? 

 

On paper they have a lot of similarities, but in terms of who they are as politicians there is a world of difference. To boil it down, Hillary is a corporatist while Bernie will actually go up against corporations, insurance companies, etc. Hillary is a political chameleon, while Bernie actually has integrity and will express what he thinks, not just try to determine the "political temperature" and say what he thinks people want to hear, like Hillary does (e.g. gay marriage - she was against it just a couple years ago, now is for it).

 

As I see it, the reason the middle class has been shrinking and the US has been essentially declining for 40 years now is that wealth has "trickled up" to the wealthy. Consider:

 

Number of billionaires in US: In 1985 it was 13, in 2015 it is 492.

 

CEOs in Britain and Canada make 20x the average worker; in Japan it is 11x. In the US? 343x.

 

Meanwhile the middle class continues to shrink, with salaries going down and cost of living going up.

 

Tell me there's not something wrong with this picture.

[Jay]

http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/ceo-income/full-list

Problem is people make stuff up to prove their point. Does Bernie do that?

[mtangelsfan]

On paper they have a lot of similarities, but in terms of who they are as politicians there is a world of difference. To boil it down, Hillary is a corporatist while Bernie will actually go up against corporations, insurance companies, etc. Hillary is a political chameleon, while Bernie actually has integrity and will express what he thinks, not just try to determine the "political temperature" and say what he thinks people want to hear, like Hillary does (e.g. gay marriage - she was against it just a couple years ago, now is for it).

 

As I see it, the reason the middle class has been shrinking and the US has been essentially declining for 40 years now is that wealth has "trickled up" to the wealthy. Consider:

 

Number of billionaires in US: In 1985 it was 13, in 2015 it is 492.

 

CEOs in Britain and Canada make 20x the average worker; in Japan it is 11x. In the US? 343x.

 

Meanwhile the middle class continues to shrink, with salaries going down and cost of living going up.

 

Tell me there's not something wrong with this picture.

 

find the numbers per state in the shrinking of the middle class.  California has had more of it than any other state.  Democratic governor and legislature.

 

Problem is both sides are screwing the middle-class.  It is like that scene in South Park with Spielberg and Lucas screwing Indiana Jones.  Except Indy in my scenario is the middle class and they are getting screwed by a donkey and an elephant.

 

Which does not sound at all pleasant.

[Glen]

Something of a side note, but relevant: have you seen Sanders in an interview? Dude is awkward and jumpy. It seems like he'd come off bad in a debate.

[mtangelsfan]

Something of a side note, but relevant: have you seen Sanders in an interview? Dude is awkward and jumpy. It seems like he'd come off bad in a debate.

 

He looks like that crazy college professor that is obviously smart but might not remember where the bathroom is.