Aviation Fans

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 12/18/2016 at 2:00 PM, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Good to know. Norwegian flies from here to London-Gatwick. 

Oh yeah. for cheap, too.

And if london is too expensive the day youre going, try coppenhagen, stockholm, dublin and paris...you might find a ridiculous deal. and rhen you grab the 1-w hour flight to london for 80 bucks from there.

[ten ocho recon scout]

One of my bucket list goals for next yesr is to see an international air show. im leaning towards moscow, not sure if it will be next year. i think paris has a really popular one too. would love to see some foreign fighters up close. and seeing a sukhoi series do a demo would be worth it.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

44 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

One of my bucket list goals for next yesr is to see an international air show. im leaning towards moscow, not sure if it will be next year. i think paris has a really popular one too. would love to see some foreign fighters up close. and seeing a sukhoi series do a demo would be worth it.

I had the good fortune of being at the air show in Oklahoma City in 1990, the first time that Russian military aircraft were allowed in American airspace. There was a  flight demonstration by two Sukhoi SU-27s, and the Antonov AN-225 was there. There was also an impressive flight demonstration by a Kamov KA-32 helicopter.

[Kevin]

Had this one for a while and another one I'll try and find. This was my grandfather after a mission to Vietnam in his P-38. My dad told me he was so exhausted and just wanted to go to bed (I think my dad told me he had been flying for 10 or 12 hours but I might be misremembering how long it really was) but had to go through his mission debrief first.

 

 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

For some reason the photo is not loading on my end.

[gotbeer]

 

Embattled A-10s Get Upgrades to Enhance Search and Rescue

[arch stanton]

6 hours ago, gotbeer said:

 

Embattled A-10s Get Upgrades to Enhance Search and Rescue

[Junkballer]

On 12/11/2016 at 11:43 PM, ten ocho recon scout said:

Hell yeah! no contest, but the JSF will "win"...

The A-10 detractors always say the same thing, it cant penetrate hostile air space....well no shit. neither can helicopters, but were not getting rid of those.

It seems like every single article about the F-35 are just puff pieces.   When you try to make a magical swiss army knife of a plane no wonder that it does no one thing better than its predecessors.  Dogfight, hell no.  Ground support, no.  Stealth, advances in lower frequency VHF radars make it questionable and it is very likely that they will need to fly with E-2's with more advanced technology than what they currently possess to remain truly stealthy.

As ground support the A-10 carries 1174 rounds of 30mm and can survive flying low and slow.  The F-35B (Marine STVOL) carries only 220 rounds of 25mm in a external pod which along with wingmount hard points and munitions make a jaw-droppingly expensive and vulnerable NON-Stealthy aircraft.   It is so expensive and so vulnerable that it has to stand off from the fight lest a $500 shoulder fired weapon take down a 200 million dollar aircraft.   

At minimum, they need to hold back any additional funding and derail the schedule on this program so that Lockheed is required to fix the over 270 combat performance problems, some of which are enormous problems, before they declare the current developmental phase complete and move on to the Operational Test Evaluation phase in August which they are planning to do whether any of those items are fixed or not.

[ten ocho recon scout]

^good post

Im not at all a fan. As an F-16 replacement in the air to ground roll, ok. As a harrier replacement, yes (not saying much). 

But not the A-10. And not the F-16 in the air to air roll.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

This is what happens when you try to make one plane do several things. There are compromises all around, and by the time you're done, it isn't particularly good at any of the tasks you are asking of it. I remember the F-111 of the Vietnam era, the variable-ratio winged plane that was supposed to do everything. It was at best a mediocre weapon, and it was a maintenance nightmare.

IMO we are far better off building smaller numbers of several different types of aircraft, each with a specialized role.

[gotbeer]

Russia Has Its Own A-10 Warthog (And It Was Meant to Be a NATO-Killer)

Even Russia can figure out it has a good thing, and update it instead of scrap it for an unproven much more expensive thing.

[gotbeer]

'A badass airplane with a big gun on it' — Congresswoman talks about flying the legendary A-10 Warthog

[arch stanton]

2 hours ago, gotbeer said:

'A badass airplane with a big gun on it' — Congresswoman talks about flying the legendary A-10 Warthog

A-10. C-130. B-52. Some things work so well they cease to make money for the proper people

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 2/22/2017 at 9:32 AM, gotbeer said:

Even Russia can figure out it has a good thing, and update it instead of scrap it for an unproven much more expensive thing.

Or something that is supposed to carry out half a dozen very different missions.

[ten ocho recon scout]

FYI, in Russia you can fly in a Mig 29 to the edge of space....

[gotbeer]

Watch the US Marine Corps' F-35 run and gun for the first time

Lol.  I'm sure the Marines appreciate having a gun on their planes that don't work.

Quote

The gun pod, which straps on to the belly of the F-35B and US Navy's F-35C, allows the ship-based fighters the option to sacrifice a little stealth, drag, and range for 220-rounds of 25 mm firepower — an upgrade from the 20 mm guns that current US fighter jets carry, though the magazine is smaller. 

While the F-35 has fielded some criticism for its gun, which at 55 rounds per second can empty its entire magazine in under four seconds, the gun actually makes sense for the type of close air-support environment that the F-35 is expected to operate in.

 

.........................

The much-loved A-10 Warthog, the long-time king of close air support with 1,350 rounds of 30 mm, is ideal for flying low and slow, loitering in the sky, and delivering its precise fire to provide close air support. But this makes sense in only uncontested air space.

............................

As it stands, though the F-35 can fire its gun while flying, the software update needed to properly aim the gun remains elusive.

Lockheed Martin, the F-35's main contractor, says the software could come out as early as late 2017, but a recent report from the Government Accountability Office said it could take a full year, and millions in additional funding, to come around. 

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

To be fair, the concept is the same as the harrier. And the f-35 i think is more than a slight upgrade to the harrier. Its replacing the f-16 and a-10 where i think it fails.

That said, im kind of changing my mind a bit. I can see once it gets its kinks worked out it becoming a very good airplane. We might be judging it too much on what it cant do compared to legacy planes and end up being suprised as it carves out its own niche....like something we havent seen before.

Still hope they keep the hog.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Arch, as far as you know, is there any interest on updating the f-15s/f-16s? I see the russians updating existing designs and wonder if thets the way to go for cost savings. Would be nice to build more raptors but theres no money. Updated f-15s make a lot of sense though.

[Tank]

i love the F15 but i thought it was taken out of service a few years ago. no?

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, gotbeer said:

Watch the US Marine Corps' F-35 run and gun for the first time

Lol.  I'm sure the Marines appreciate having a gun on their planes that don't work.

 

They are Marines, they will improvise and overcome by strapping a dozen Kabar knives to the underside and fly real low. 

[arch stanton]

 The F-15 is alive and well. The C model was replaced on active duty by the Raptors and sent to the Guard units but the E model is still a huge part of the inventory. There have already been tons of upgrades on both versions and I'm sure more will take place but the Raptors and F-35 programs are so expensive they don't leave room for much else.

The F-15SA model, which Saudi Arabia bought 84 units, is largely redesigned and now includes infrared search and track (IRST), a new digital electronic warfare system, and fly-by-wire flight control systems. There's more new things but you'd have to know more about the panes to understand the differences. Qatar is also buying 36 Q models, which will be similar to the SA, with an option to double the order.

So, if you're following, the idea is to spread cost around and create a huge force of allies with similar equipment that can all be networked. Off the top of my head Japan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, South Korea, Singapore all have F-15s while Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, and several European countries all have F-16s. Several of these and other countries also fly Mirages, Typhoons, Tornadoes, and other European models. All are designed to be networked together and share information and even assist in delivering each other's ordnance.

On the subject of the F-35 gun, no close air support pilot is going to prefer 200 rounds of 25 mm to 1,350 rounds of 30 mm or even the 510 rounds of 20 mm you get from a F-15E so I'll have to assume that it won't fly CAP in the convemtional way. There has to be more to the answer than a 200 round gun pod.

[Tank]

Thanks for the info, Arch. Had no idea about the networking idea. Glad to know the F15 is alive and well.

[arch stanton]

25 minutes ago, Tank said:

Thanks for the info, Arch. Had no idea about the networking idea. Glad to know the F15 is alive and well.

It's been my living for 33 years

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, Tank said:

i love the F15 but i thought it was taken out of service a few years ago. no?

Still front line, tanker. Boeing is currently marketting updated versions that Israel and i think S. Korea is considering.

The russians have done well updating their old fighters. Their Su-27 came out around the same time as the F-15. Their follow on Su-30 and 35 are pretty badass.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

Thanks for the info, Arch. Had no idea about the networking idea. Glad to know the F15 is alive and well.

Thats kind of the main focus of the F-35. What it lacks in performance (not as fast or agile as the F-16 or 18 its replacing), supposedly its a force multiplier. As in, one can quarterback a fleet of F-15s....if the technology works. I think the idea is it can sneek in off radar, silently coordinate fires to friendly planes, and still have its own arms to fight if needed. 

Sonfar its had a lot of bad press. But to be fair, it may end up kind of redefining alor creating a role that hasnt existed yet. (If it all works out right).

For decades, people have said dogfighting is dead. And then a war breaks out, and agilenfighters with guns make missile fighters look bad.

That being said, in the current and future, the new generation of missiles is kind making rhe first argument 'true'. The new generation can fire off bore sight, meaning even if you arent directly behind the bad guy (or anywhere else without a tradional firing angle) l, you can still shoot the missile with probable success. Google aim-9 x, tank. A few crazy videos on youtube.

The other major focus is on electronics (and networking). The new generstion is all about which plane (and associated support) can jam the other guy better. The F-35 is supposed to be the best at that (when its finally all worked out).

Arch, whats your take on the meteor missile? And what do you think of the rafale?