Gunfire at Oregon High School

[mtangelsfan]

so tobias you are saying that habits and discipline are not learned?  Also, I think tank and the way he carries himself merits him with a little more respect.  I'm positive he has never posted to you disrespectfully the way have just posted to him.

[LBHalos17]

You're right Tank, I was never a 13 year old that played violent video games...

Look, everyone is different. But I grew up playing video games with my first violent game being the original Wolfenstein 3D, grew up on punk and hardcore. I also studied warfare and the Nazis damn near religiously (I was always a man of modern mitary history). As an adult I hate wars, guns, and am probably the last person to go postal. So spare me the "you don't know what its like" talk. I WAS that dangerous demographic you're talking about.

I think you miss the point, TF.

These juvenile killers are creations of a "perfect storm."  They have most, if not all of the red-flags going along with the "switch" to activate their grand plans.  Video games and movies have driven this spike, by glamorizing violence without the responsibility.

 

You and I played (I still play them occasionally) these violent games, were bullied, etc.  Same as you, I am a student of military-history and fell in love with punk-rock/hardcore (I even played drums for a couple of bands in college).  

 

But, I was given outlets for my frustration.  I played sports (and got better than most of my bullies from years before), and had parents, teachers, and other mentors to help me learn empathy and discipline.

We may have had a lot of the same feelings as these killers, but the thoughts of enacting them is nothing more than a daydream (much like a child will scream, "I hate you!  I wish you were dead!" in the heat of the moment.  We calmed-down and back to reality; these killers do not.

I liken it to one of my mottos at work.  Whenever we see or hear of something completely-insane, I will say to my partners that I'm glad I don't truly understand their motives; it might make me like them.

[Ordos]

Violent video games have the same constitutional protections as gun ownership does (first amendment vs. second). Which gives first?

[nate]

Edited June 12, 2014 by nate

[Blarg]

Ooooh, charts and graphs!

[gotbeer]

F'ning Mexico.  

[arch stanton]

Seems someone needs to be going apeshit about those non-gun homicides.

[red321]

They represent them politically.

 

The NRA is a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers. It's a great setup...you ensure anyone can get their hands on a gun who wants one and then you send up Wayne LaPierre to weave tales of the American Dystopia and how anyone who doesn't own their own arsenal is going to die a horrible death at the hands of all these bad people carrying guns. It's a win win for the gun manufacturers.

[TobiasFunke]

so tobias you are saying that habits and discipline are not learned?  Also, I think tank and the way he carries himself merits him with a little more respect.  I'm positive he has never posted to you disrespectfully the way have just posted to him.

Edited to get rid of sarcasm. I meant no disrespect to Tank.

[mtangelsfan]

The NRA is a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers. It's a great setup...you ensure anyone can get their hands on a gun who wants one and then you send up Wayne LaPierre to weave tales of the American Dystopia and how anyone who doesn't own their own arsenal is going to die a horrible death at the hands of all these bad people carrying guns. It's a win win for the gun manufacturers.

 

Aside from the hyperbole, I think it is fairly accurate to see the NRA as a lobby for gun manufacturers. 

[TobiasFunke]

I think you miss the point, TF.

These juvenile killers are creations of a "perfect storm."  They have most, if not all of the red-flags going along with the "switch" to activate their grand plans.  Video games and movies have driven this spike, by glamorizing violence without the responsibility.

 

You and I played (I still play them occasionally) these violent games, were bullied, etc.  Same as you, I am a student of military-history and fell in love with punk-rock/hardcore (I even played drums for a couple of bands in college).  

 

But, I was given outlets for my frustration.  I played sports (and got better than most of my bullies from years before), and had parents, teachers, and other mentors to help me learn empathy and discipline.

We may have had a lot of the same feelings as these killers, but the thoughts of enacting them is nothing more than a daydream (much like a child will scream, "I hate you!  I wish you were dead!" in the heat of the moment.  We calmed-down and back to reality; these killers do not.

I liken it to one of my mottos at work.  Whenever we see or hear of something completely-insane, I will say to my partners that I'm glad I don't truly understand their motives; it might make me like them.

I agree with pretty much everything you have to say in here. I didn't miss his point though, if he said there are a lot of factors in shootings and violent societal outlets are some of the factors then I might agree, but he didn't put it that way. Your comment about outlets is key. Parents use the television as a 24/7 babysitter, and if parents do take their kids out to dinner then it seems like immediately they give them their phone or ipad to watch something on instead of interacting.  It's very necessary I think to have outlets, concerts were mine, riding bikes, etc. But if your face is in the television all day and all night then yes something mentally is probably going to snap.

 

What's funny is the video games and music always gets the shaft when it comes to blame but you don't really hear about television and movies. If a kid isn't playing video games then damn near every show and/or movie you can watch has violence (Iron Man, Captain America, anyone?). But we should all focus on video games though.

 

In the end, it all comes down to parenting. Almost every excuse one could think of (even Nate's very valid mentally unstable comments) comes down to parenting.

[LBHalos17]

It's the media that jumps right on the video game blame bandwagon.  I've been a student of these active-shooter/juvenile offender incidents since Columbine.  A lot of these suspects were adept at hiding their "red-flags" until it was time to put their plan into effect; but there are usually enough signs if parents, teachers, etc. are looking for them.

 

Thanks for the Math, Nate; now my head really hurts...  btw, Where was Iraq, Afghanistan, and Chechnya on those graphs?!  8)

[TobiasFunke]

The media are a bunch of idiots. Sure they jump on the video game bandwagon, but we as civilians should be smarter to analyze everything else and not assist them on the video game bandwagon.

[Ordos]

Tipper Gore told me that Twisted Sister is to blame