Game of Thrones

[Blarg]

Maybe it should have been named Game of Inbred Bastards. 

[sneaky_flute]

1 hour ago, nate said:

HBO released this image.  I guess so we can try to unravel who has a claim to the Iron Throne.

Cersei is the rightful heir because she was Robert's wife and no other Baratheons exist. However, anyone can come along and take it by force. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Technically a Targaryen is the rightful heir.     

[mrwicked]

1 hour ago, nate said:

Why isn't Robert listed as royal family?

targaryens are the actual royalty.

robert only became king when he joined with jon arryn and ned stark to rebel against the mad king after that punk ass prince rhaegor (already married to elia martell) stole (and now we know, knocked up) his bitch. 

[Brandon]

Damn, I'm lost with all the history/lineage stuff. It's like you have to read the books or follow all the theories where people dial in who is who and who's connected to who, etc.

As Red mentioned, kind of surprised they just dropped the Jon Snow/Rhaegar connection since it was never actually mentioned and only assumed through theories. You'd think they would make an episode out of it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Damn, I'm lost with all the history/lineage stuff. It's like you have to read the books or follow all the theories where people dial in who is who and who's connected to who, etc.

As Red mentioned, kind of surprised they just dropped the Jon Snow/Rhaegar connection since it was never actually mentioned and only assumed through theories. You'd think they would make an episode out of it.

Ya, I think as the show has moved past the books it's become harder for it to stand on its own. I don't know if this is GRRM's fault for writing such a complex story, or Dan & Dave's inability to adapt from book's that haven't been written yet. I know Jon Snow's parentage has been a big deal in book circles for years, but the show hasn't really cared much about it. Aside from Jon's line to Ned in season one, where he asks him about his mother, we haven't gotten anything. Also Rhygar has been mentioned in passing only a handful of times. I'm not sure if they ever brought up Lyanna until this season and the two scenes in the crypt in season 1 & 5. I hadn't heard of R+L=J until after Jon's death at the end of last season.

The other issue is that the show hasn't really established the significance of Jon's true parents. I suppose this gives Jon a claim to the throne, but even still he is a child born outside of marriage, and no one has a clue of this fact. This did create a bit of irony, in the scene where he is claimed 'King in the North' despite being a bastard because "the blood of Ned Stark runs through him." The northerners logic for legitimizing him isn't sound, but does make sense when it comes to the iron throne. 

The other thing I've heard said is that Jon is "the song of ice and fire" being the blood of Stark (ice) and Targaryn (fire). 

The point of all this is that it's getting hard to separate the books from the show, and it's getting more difficult, IMO, to follow or find significance in certain parts of the show without reading fan theories from book readers online.

[Brandon]

Pretty much. It was a slower pace basing off the books, then when they finished where the books were it's like they said, "Fuck this, we need to wrap this shit up" and just really upped the pace and started dropping shit on everyone that hasn't been big topics or issues the entire show. I think GRRM and the writers are on the same page as far as where they want it to go and end, but the pacing with introducing this shit is really off if you just simply follow the show. But it's not the first time they've done this. They have done it with a few characters, namely Ramsey, where he just randomly shows up and there is this random dude torturing Theon and you have no clue what's going on or why for quite some time (if memory serves me correct).

Maybe it's just a set up and next season they get into it more....I guess they have to anyway if they are going this route. Or maybe they just assumed most people know the theory so they just didn't care and dropped it like how they muffled the father when Ned spoke with Lyanna so we are left hanging, but then a few days later they drop a lineage graphic showing who the father is, it's just makes zero sense.

As you mentioned, I have no idea who, how, or why these people are important or they were barely mentioned to put things together. 

[Chimi]

I think that's where they screwed up on the Bran storyline.  They should have used Bran as a vessel to tell the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna.  It would have made the unveiling of Jon Snow being their child way bigger than it was. But I think for the casual fans of the show the importance of that whole scene was lost.

[nate]

I think the problem is it is a pretty boring story unless they really go back and retell the past including Robert's reaction and how he ordered all Targaryens killed because Lyanna was kidnapped.  There are mentions of most of these things in the show it is just one or two lines.

Not an actual spoiler but a theory that makes sense so I will make it under the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Some expansion on the Tyrian/Targaryen link... the whole theory is that there are three dragons and they will need three riders.  We know Jon and Dany are Targaryens, and because Tywin believed that Tyrian was actually fathered by Aegon that would be the third Targaryen.  Of course it is just a fan theory that the three dragons need riders.

The last part of the Cercei prophecy is that she will be killed by her younger brother.  Both Tyrian and Jamie are younger than her... Everyone is expecting it will be Tyrian.

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

As we discussed way earlier in this thread I think part of the problem is that while Martin knew how the story would end he either didn't know how to get it there or the story got too big as evidenced by the amount of time between books.  Now the people making the show have to take what he told them and wrap it up in so many episodes because they can't drag it out like he did with his writing.  If HBO did what Martin has done with his books they'd have a 30 second clip (i.e. him pulling out a recent chapter when he's at some book event) that they tease fans with while they wait for the entire season that keeps getting pushed back.     

[NJHalo]

Since GOT is HBO's biggest ratings hit, and they have gone beyond the books, why are they being told to wrap it up?

As long as it is killing the ratings, why not milk it as long as they can?  There is no historical timeline to follow.

They can even go back to the very beginning.

[AngelsLakersFan]

6 minutes ago, NJHalo said:

Since GOT is HBO's biggest ratings hit, and they have gone beyond the books, why are they being told to wrap it up?

As long as it is killing the ratings, why not milk it as long as they can?  There is no historical timeline to follow.

They can even go back to the very beginning.

I actually think Dave & Dan want to wrap it up. It's such a huge show that they are constantly working around the clock, and around the world to get everything done. I think they also want to be able to make all the scenes a bit more epic, as they are always bumping into budgetary restrictions. If they cut out 3 or 4 episodes per season it gives them more time and money to pull everything off the way they want to. Unfortunately it will be the smaller scenes that are lost and those are the ones that have helped with the pacing and with understanding story and character motivations during the first four seasons. 

If anything season 6 felt like it needed more episodes with more smaller scenes, but that was probably impossible.

[Chimi]

They've both admitted the show is costing too much and is taking too much time. They've said the budget and time required for it has far exceeded TV show territory and is closer to feature film territory. I'm sure HBO would milk this for as long as they can but I respect the creators staying firm and wanting the show to have an actual other to an ending.

Not sure how many of you watch Pennt Dreadful (it's a great show on Shoetime) but that show just ended after only three season. The creator of the show said he always intended the series to be a story told over three seasons and to conclude then. I just think it makes for better story telling when they have an actual end they're working towards rather than just prolong it for as long as possible and then toss together an ending when the network is threatening to cancel them. It allows them to end the show how they want.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

1 hour ago, NJHalo said:

Since GOT is HBO's biggest ratings hit, and they have gone beyond the books, why are they being told to wrap it up?

As long as it is killing the ratings, why not milk it as long as they can?  There is no historical timeline to follow.

They can even go back to the very beginning.

Aside from what ALF and Chimi said money aside why risk screwing up something that's been great just to drag it out for the almighty dollar?  Some of the TV shows that are the highest rated knew where they were going all along and wrapped up after so many years.  I hate seeing seeing shows I like that stick around to chase money and some times the creator/producer of the show even leaves to pursue other endeavors while the broadcasting company keeps it going and generally they jump the shark.  Shows that drag on lose their appeal and in this case it would be a very expensive show where people expect the same quality.  If they want to do a prequel later where they did the war of the usurper by all means do it but do it separately and wrap the current story line up.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

38 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

Aside from what ALF and Chimi said money aside why risk screwing up something that's been great just to drag it out for the almighty dollar?  Some of the TV shows that are the highest rated knew where they were going all along and wrapped up after so many years.  I hate seeing seeing shows I like that stick around to chase money and some times the creator/producer of the show even leaves to pursue other endeavors while the broadcasting company keeps it going and generally they jump the shark.  Shows that drag on lose their appeal and in this case it would be a very expensive show where people expect the same quality.  If they want to do a prequel later where they did the war of the usurper by all means do it but do it separately and wrap the current story line up.  

While I don't think this is exactly what NJHalo was saying, a lot of fans feel like the show is rushing towards an ending rather than finding itself near one. Most of the criticisms of the show center around aspects of the story that the show has glossed over or trimmed for time. Interestingly GRRM has talked about finishing off the story in an 8th book, instead of the 7th as most expected. 

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

He said "why not milk it as long as they can" which to me is a lot different than saying something like take time telling the story while there's still a huge following.  Some of it's rushed but I think some of that is because of Martin's material which they're trying to make appealing to TV viewers.  By the time I got to the 3rd book there were so many lesser characters getting chapters while some major characters weren't brought up again until book 4.  Martin writing more books wouldn't surprise me because he appears to be in love with this world he's created and at this rate someone else will have to finish the story off ala Robert Jordan and The Wheel of Time.   

[mrwicked]

16 hours ago, Eddie said:

Damn, I'm lost with all the history/lineage stuff. It's like you have to read the books or follow all the theories where people dial in who is who and who's connected to who, etc.

As Red mentioned, kind of surprised they just dropped the Jon Snow/Rhaegar connection since it was never actually mentioned and only assumed through theories. You'd think they would make an episode out of it.

Yeah, I only know it because I like to read the recaps at washingnton post or ny times. It's great to tie little things together that you might have missed, and also gives insight from the books.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/06/27/game-of-thrones-recap-season-finale-the-winds-of-winter/

[red321]

Something else to keep in mind regarding Lyanna and Rhaegar. It's assumed, by Robert and co. that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. But it is also theorized that it wasn't necessarily a kidnapping and that they were actually in love, and might have actually been wed. Taegaryan's had multiple wives. If that is the case...he's legit and doesn't need a royal decree. Prior to the "kidnapping" Rhaegar presented Lyanna with the hot chick of the match award, instead of his wife...which set off some grumbling. There are also tales told of a prior tournament where an unnamed knight came and kicked some butt...theory being that it might have been Lyanna...and Rhaegar found out which is how we started to develop that itch in the metal suit for her.

 

 

[LooneyPlatoons]

I hope the next book comes out before season 7

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

He said "why not milk it as long as they can" which to me is a lot different than saying something like take time telling the story while there's still a huge following.  Some of it's rushed but I think some of that is because of Martin's material which they're trying to make appealing to TV viewers.  By the time I got to the 3rd book there were so many lesser characters getting chapters while some major characters weren't brought up again until book 4.  Martin writing more books wouldn't surprise me because he appears to be in love with this world he's created and at this rate someone else will have to finish the story off ala Robert Jordan and The Wheel of Time.   

In a lot of ways season 5 and season 6 feel like, 'hey lets hurry though this bit that George couldn't quite figure out and get to the good stuff.' That is my hope, but I worry when they say they could wrap the show up in one more season ( D&D's initial remarks of ending after season 7 ).

Season 1 all lead up to one faithful moment of Ned Stark losing his head and the pacing was perfect. The story feels so large at this point that they could make two whole series out of Danny's conquest of Westeros, and the battle of the white walkers. Hard to imagine both getting justice in 6 or so episodes.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, red321 said:

Something else to keep in mind regarding Lyanna and Rhaegar. It's assumed, by Robert and co. that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. But it is also theorized that it wasn't necessarily a kidnapping and that they were actually in love, and might have actually been wed. Taegaryan's had multiple wives. If that is the case...he's legit and doesn't need a royal decree. Prior to the "kidnapping" Rhaegar presented Lyanna with the hot chick of the match award, instead of his wife...which set off some grumbling. There are also tales told of a prior tournament where an unnamed knight came and kicked some butt...theory being that it might have been Lyanna...and Rhaegar found out which is how we started to develop that itch in the metal suit for her.

 

 

Interesting. I wonder if any of this will ever be presented in the show :-)

[sneaky_flute]

I might be in the minority, but I don't find the conclusions to many of these story arcs very satisfying. They were naturally developed over the course of 5 seasons and with 14 episodes to go it feels like the writers are scrambling to wrap up everything with a neat little bow. 

[Blarg]

Let's see,  dates trannies and has a foot fetish.  Yup,  I would say you qualify for  minority status.  

[nate]

Another fan theory but good enough for spoiler tag.

Spoiler

His real name is Jaehaerys Targaryen? http://www.pref.com/a/jaw/this-game-of-thrones-fan-just-changed-how-we-view-jon-snow-mind-blown/p-1

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

23 hours ago, sneaky_flute said:

I might be in the minority, but I don't find the conclusions to many of these story arcs very satisfying. They were naturally developed over the course of 5 seasons and with 14 episodes to go it feels like the writers are scrambling to wrap up everything with a neat little bow. 

I have felt like they could be stronger, but due to the sheer strength of those 5 seasons worth of set up and high level of direction of the episodes they have been overall very good. Fortunately they killed everyone in the last episode so I hope that means we have time to better set up character motivations in season 7.