"Bonds was good before he started taking steroids"

[nate]

I never understood this argument, how do you know he wasn't taking steroids when he was younger?  Just because he wasn't huge doesn't mean anything.  Maybe he started with amphetamines.

 

Remember A Rod admitted to taking steroids in High School.  He wasn't a gigantic kid when he came up with Seattle.

 

Maybe Bonds was roiding when he was young but when he started making tons of money he went on a more aggressive routine and got huge.

 

He was the king of the most embarrassing era in baseball, he is a cheater and a loser.  The Giants should be embarrassed that they employ him now.  McGuire apologized at least.  Bonds was aggressive and completely unapologetic in his cheating.

[Blarg]

This is a pretty low brow argument.

[Tyler]

Thanks to cheaters like him, players can make tens of millions of dollars playing baseball today.

[Chuck]

I'm against steroid use as the next guy, but roids do not give the ability to:

 

Square up a ball.

Have an incredible eye at the plate.

Blessed with a sweet swing.

 

Bonds had all of those before and after the alleged steroid allegations. 

 

From gym rats that I used to work out with back in the day, they're having all kinds of health issues now because of their steroid use. Bonds was pretty consistently on the field and huge contributor for the Giants during the alleged steroid years and has been healthy to date since his retirement. 

 

I know he's a dick and it looks like he did some serious HGH, but the three points above should not take away from this guy's incredible talent, with or without steroids. 

[Bruce Nye]

He was a lot smaller when he was younger.

[Don]

First, how do we know you're not on steroids? We can go crazy with unverifiable speculation all you want, but it doesn't help much of anything. I think the anecdotal evidence is enough to figure out what (likely) happened with Bonds.

The dramatic body change that happened to Bonds between the 98 and 99 seasons seems to point to him starting some sort of PED regimen after the end of the 98 season. I understand that a guy's body can change quite a bit as one approaches middle age, but most people don't go from the body of a wide receiver to the body of defensive end in five months. This also fits with the narrative that went around about a decade ago saying that Bonds was jealous of all the attention McGwire and Sosa got during the 98 season, and he wanted to show the world that he was the best player on the planet (which he was, whether you consider him a terrible human or not).

I think the reason that Bonds is so vilified is pretty just. He's one of the guys that knowingly sought out a chemical edge, and it was only to stroke his own ego. I don't really hold anything against someone who is given bad advice by a less-than-professional trainer, or some guy that wanted to pack on some muscle so that he wouldn't have to spend his fourth straight year in AA. Those are issues of ignorance and livelihood, respectively. With Barry though, it was none of those. He had enough money, and if he had retired at the end of 98, he'd probably be in the HOF right now. Barry did it simply because he was jealous of the attention received by players he thought were inferior to him. And that's pretty despicable.

[nate]

I'm against steroid use as the next guy, but roids do not give the ability to:

 

Square up a ball.

Have an incredible eye at the plate.

Blessed with a sweet swing.

 

Bonds had all of those before and after the alleged steroid allegations. 

 

From gym rats that I used to work out with back in the day, they're having all kinds of health issues now because of their steroid use. Bonds was pretty consistently on the field and huge contributor for the Giants during the alleged steroid years and has been healthy to date since his retirement. 

 

I know he's a dick and it looks like he did some serious HGH, but the three points above should not take away from this guy's incredible talent, with or without steroids. 

 

There are a lot of guys out there that have the talent but don't quite have the bat speed.  Where do you think the bat speed comes from?

 

He tested positive for steroids so, it's not that he looks like, we know he did.

Edited March 28, 2014 by nate

[ten ocho recon scout]

Ibe said it before. Steroids are BS in terms of the older guys who didnt take them.

That said, in the steroid era, just about everyone was taking them. You have to accept that. When everyone is taking them, its an almost even playing field again. To be the best of your contemporaries, who have just as many needle marks in their butt, means you were still the best.

To piggyback chucks post, steroids dont help with hand eye coordination and all that. To further that point, how many guys out there who were just as juiced died in a ball? How many guys in high school took steroids and never got drafted?

Again, its a slap in the face to the old school guys. But juice or no juice, bonds was a HOF'er before he ever started taking them.

One more thing, steroids were in the game a lot longer before canseco wants to take credit for....

[Blarg]

With Bonds his bat speed (responding to Nate) came from his incredible DNA. He was talented well beyond his competition in youth and knew it which made him both more confident in his play and a bigger a-hole that not even teammates suffered well.

As he aged he did start to regress but as was stated his jealousy of falling behind guys willing to cheat forced him to take his physical state to another level, beyond what he could do naturally.

His level of a-hole really didn't change.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Eric Notti

[Spirit]

I'm against steroid use as the next guy, but roids do not give the ability to:

 

Square up a ball.

Have an incredible eye at the plate.

Blessed with a sweet swing.

 

Bonds had all of those before and after the alleged steroid allegations. 

 

From gym rats that I used to work out with back in the day, they're having all kinds of health issues now because of their steroid use. Bonds was pretty consistently on the field and huge contributor for the Giants during the alleged steroid years and has been healthy to date since his retirement. 

 

I know he's a dick and it looks like he did some serious HGH, but the three points above should not take away from this guy's incredible talent, with or without steroids. 

 

 

It gives you the ability to recover much faster.  And is a 6-8 month marathon sport like baseball, that can be a huge advantage. 

[ScottT]

He wasn't just good.  He was arguably the best player in MLB as early as 1990.   He was the 6th pick in the 1985 draft... after going to a top D1 baseball school.... where he was an All-American. He was drafted by the Giants in the second round following his All-American high school season.  

 

When he started taking steroids, who knows.... how much it helped. who knows.  I do know he was playing against people that did the same... and he excelled like he always did on the baseball field.  

[DW711]

I'm against steroid use as the next guy, but roids do not give the ability to:

 

Square up a ball.

Have an incredible eye at the plate.

Blessed with a sweet swing.

 

Bonds had all of those before and after the alleged steroid allegations. 

 

From gym rats that I used to work out with back in the day, they're having all kinds of health issues now because of their steroid use. Bonds was pretty consistently on the field and huge contributor for the Giants during the alleged steroid years and has been healthy to date since his retirement. 

 

I know he's a dick and it looks like he did some serious HGH, but the three points above should not take away from this guy's incredible talent, with or without steroids. 

 

For those bolded parts..a lot of people would disagree.

 

If he didn't take steroids...he'd be in the hall of fame.

 

He cheated himself.

[markb]

Barry Bonds on steroids was playing against a bunch of other dudes on steroids.  Yet none of them managed to put up the absolutely surreal numbers that he did in the early 2000's.  Steroids alone cannot catapult an average player into what he was.  And being a jerk doesn't really change that.  

 

Babe Ruth was a drunken philanderer who played in a segregated league yet he's an icon.  There's just as much justification for an asterisk next to his stats as Bonds.

[Season Over]

While Bonds is a massive dick and an admitted cheater, as far as I know there's no evidence he was juicing prior to signing with San Francisco.

[ten ocho recon scout]

As far as the 'who knows when he started juicing', fair enough. How do we know trouts not today? Does anyone have proof trouts ever been tested?

Open ended wuestions like that are fair to a point, but you also have to be able to do some reasoning. Bonds likely began around 99 (as the story goes), also as evident of how suddenly his power exploded.

[James]

One of the most talented players of his era, plain and simple. 

[QuinlansMinion]

Barry Bonds on steroids was playing against a bunch of other dudes on steroids.  Yet none of them managed to put up the absolutely surreal numbers that he did in the early 2000's.  Steroids alone cannot catapult an average player into what he was.  And being a jerk doesn't really change that.  

 

Babe Ruth was a drunken philanderer who played in a segregated league yet he's an icon.  There's just as much justification for an asterisk next to his stats as Bonds.

Stop making sense.  You're clearly not a real American.

[Mark68]

I never understood this argument, how do you know he wasn't taking steroids when he was younger?  Just because he wasn't huge doesn't mean anything.  Maybe he started with amphetamines.

 

Remember A Rod admitted to taking steroids in High School.  He wasn't a gigantic kid when he came up with Seattle.

 

Maybe Bonds was roiding when he was young but when he started making tons of money he went on a more aggressive routine and got huge.

 

He was the king of the most embarrassing era in baseball, he is a cheater and a loser.  The Giants should be embarrassed that they employ him now.  McGuire apologized at least.  Bonds was aggressive and completely unapologetic in his cheating.

After all these years, can we at least spell McGwire's name correctly?

 

Bonds may or may not have been roiding with the Pirates, but if he was, it was less obvious than when he was in his late 30s and hitting home runs at a crazy pace.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Mark68

[Fontana Halo]

I think we can both agree on this:

 

He may have juiced his whole career and if he did, there was a part where he juiced a lot more than he previously did.

 

Regardless, he was still the best baseball player during both phases of his career.

 

I never understood the hate for Barry Bonds for the PED's. He used steroids during a time when all his competitors were using steroids too. And he was still day and night better. It's kind of like condemning somebody for being a drunk during the 1920s. 

Edited March 29, 2014 by Fontana Halo

[Halos of Anaheim]

Barry Bonds on steroids was playing against a bunch of other dudes on steroids.  Yet none of them managed to put up the absolutely surreal numbers that he did in the early 2000's.  Steroids alone cannot catapult an average player into what he was.  And being a jerk doesn't really change that.  

 

Babe Ruth was a drunken philanderer who played in a segregated league yet he's an icon.  There's just as much justification for an asterisk next to his stats as Bonds.

Wish I could like this 10x, along with a couple other posts in this thread. Bonds just evened the playing field, he was clearly the best player in the game for a considerable amount of time before he hopped on roids (supposedly, of course). Either way he was at a lean sprinters stature before the 98 season, and had legitimate roiders who he was clearly more talented than stealing his shine because they were either on something that he wasn't, or using it at a much more stronger dosage than he was.

 

in the end, the second he started to resemble other guys at his height and weight, he finally started to prove why he WAS the best player in the league, steroids or not. 

[DW711]

No, sorry..

 

He wore armor  that took away the inner half of the plate. Did everyone do that, too?

 

'Everyone' used steroids? Really? Eckstein did, also?

 

What percentage does everyone think took steroids? 50? 60? It sure as hell wasn't 100% or anything close to that.

 

Did everyone just forget on how much his body changed from the Pirates to Giants when he was hitting 70?

[Docwaukee]

Who cares if he was one of the best players in the game without steroids.  PED's vaulted him into consideration as the best player ever which he never would have been without those four ridiculous seasons from 2001 to 2004 from age 36-39.  Folks would be less inclined to worry about it if those seasons were just excellent and not iconic. 

 

Sammy Sosa has over 600 hrs yet the level of controversy surrounding him is far less.  Why?  Bonds cheated to be the best ever.  Not just a potential HOFer. 

[arch stanton]

My enduring memory of Barry Bonds will be watching him helplessly attempt to field a Garret Anderson blooper in Game 6. From the millennium onward he was completely useless anywhere except in the batter's box. My sincerest thanks to Dusty Baker for not insisting that he DH in the AL park. 

Edited March 29, 2014 by arch stanton

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The dramatic body change that happened to Bonds between the 98 and 99 seasons seems to point to him starting some sort of PED regimen after the end of the 98 season. I understand that a guy's body can change quite a bit as one approaches middle age, but most people don't go from the body of a wide receiver to the body of defensive end in five months. 

 

A friend of mine who played college football at a major university told me about his own steroid use. He said that following the regimen he was given, he gained 60 pounds between spring practice and the beginning of the season.

[Fontana Halo]

Who cares if he was one of the best players in the game without steroids.  PED's vaulted him into consideration as the best player ever which he never would have been without those four ridiculous seasons from 2001 to 2004 from age 36-39.  Folks would be less inclined to worry about it if those seasons were just excellent and not iconic. 

 

Sammy Sosa has over 600 hrs yet the level of controversy surrounding him is far less.  Why?  Bonds cheated to be the best ever.  Not just a potential HOFer. 

Sammy Sosa is whiter than me these days.